Dungeon World Gets New Owners, Second Edition Planned

Luke Crane has purchased Dungeon World from its original creators and has plans to make a new edition of the game. Earlier this month, Crane, who previously designed The Burning Wheel and Mouse Guard Roleplaying Games, announced on the Dungeon World+ discord that he had "bought the game from the original creators" (Adam Koebel and Sage LaTorra) with a business partner and was preparing to work on a new edition. Crane did not specify whether either Koebel or LaTorra would be involved in the new edition.

Dungeon World's first edition won several awards when released in 2012, including the 2012 Golden Geek RPG of the Year and the Ennie Awards for Best Rules Gold Winner in 2013. The game was a Powered by the Apocalypse system in which players gained experience points when rolling a 6 or below on a check (which resulted in "trouble" occurring on the check and the opportunity for the DM to make a DM move. The game's co-creator Adam Koebel was a prominent creator and early TTRPG personality until accusations emerged of poor behavior by former partners.

Crane was previously the head of community at Kickstarter and attempted to run a campaign for The Perfect RPG zine back in 2021. He cancelled the campaign after it emerged that Koebel was involved with the project and later resigned from his job as a result of the backlash.

 

[TiQuinn]

Kickstarter community head quits, apologizes for controversial RPG project Considering the last time Luke told a bunch of people that Koebel was 100% definitely not involved in something.... not much confidence in the project here!

Future interview: “So, Mr Crane…it says here that the new co-designer on Dungeon World 2nd Edition is someone named Madam Krobel?”

 

[Aldarc]

Sweet!

Hard pass.

Kickstarter community head quits, apologizes for controversial RPG project Considering the last time Luke told a bunch of people that Koebel was 100% definitely not involved in something.... not much confidence in the project here!

Future interview: “So, Mr Crane…it says here that the new co-designer on Dungeon World 2nd Edition is someone named Madam Krobel?”

Luke Crane's past behavior regarding Adam Koebel is one reason why I am hesistant about this project, but Jeremy Strandberg did ask about his potential involvement:

5. What are Adam Koebel's and Sage Latora's involvement in the second edition? I understand that you acquired the rights. But will they be involved in the development? Compensated for future sales? Adam in particular is a lightning-rod figure, and at least some of your potential audience will want to know whether they are supporting him by supporting a DW2e.

Luke — 08/17/2024 11:24 PM​

No involvement whatsoever.

 

[Aldarc]

Thanks for the heads up @Aldarc (well, I got your heads up by way of @Old Fezziwig , but you're the primary source as I'm not connected to these communities!).

Luke Crane's design chops/history + new Dungeon World iteration? Take my money.

Luke Crane's goals seem oriented around giving Dungeon World a good scrub and a coat of polish. Is there anything that you would like to see done for the game to improve it while still being in line with Luke Crane's vision for the game?

 

[Manbearcat]

Luke Crane's goals seem oriented around giving Dungeon World a good scrub and a coat of polish. Is there anything that you would like to see done for the game to improve it while still being in line with Luke Crane's vision for the game?

I posted a singular message on their Discord server (after just joining it).

One thing that was always a concern (but it didn't confound play particularly detrimentally) was the Make Camp move and everything that goes into that (procedurally and the implications of refresh). I implemented various Custom Moves and procedures over the years to resolve some negative space that I didn't love around Make Camp and recovery, but I don't feel like I ever "landed the plane" in such a way that ever felt exactly right.

My hope is that Luke solves that with something akin to Torchbearer's "accrue Checks and spend Checks" engine along with that game's Camp phase procedures...but obviously an AW-ification of the same.

There are other things like End of Session questions also need another pass, more engaging social conflict resolution, playbooks could use some 4e-ification, more situationally-impactful & diverse keywords (for all things from PCs to gear to Threats), and the game's attribute proliferation reaching tipping point late-game needs resolved. But I think if they just satisfyingly resolve that first concern for me, that alone would be a fairly sizable net win IMO.

 

[Aldarc]

I posted a singular message on their Discord server (after just joining it).

One thing that was always a concern (but it didn't confound play particularly detrimentally) was the Make Camp move and everything that goes into that (procedurally and the implications of refresh). I implemented various Custom Moves and procedures over the years to resolve some negative space that I didn't love around Make Camp and recovery, but I don't feel like I ever "landed the plane" in such a way that ever felt exactly right.

My hope is that Luke solves that with something akin to Torchbearer's "accrue Checks and spend Checks" engine along with that game's Camp phase procedures...but obviously an AW-ification of the same.

Interestsing. Did the Make Camp (et al.) moves in Perilous Wilds/Freebooters on the Frontier or Stonetop also not work for you either?

There are other things like End of Session questions also need another pass, more engaging social conflict resolution, playbooks could use some 4e-ification, more situationally-impactful & diverse keywords (for all things from PCs to gear to Threats), and the game's attribute proliferation reaching tipping point late-game needs resolved. But I think if they just satisfyingly resolve that first concern for me, that alone would be a fairly sizable net win IMO.

I prefer the social conflict resolution in Stonetop and Avatar Legends. When the Move is Vs. PC, it is less about "I persuade you," but instead more about "you reveal what I could do to persuade you." I like that much better as it becomes a moment where we get to learn about the characters, and players can still decide how to act/roleplay on that information.

The game's attribute proliferation could probably be fixed by not permitting it to go up at all or putting a cap on it.

That said, I am curious what you mean when you say "playbooks could use some 4e-ification." I likely highly agree with you here here; however, I don't necessarily want to project my sentiments in that regard onto yours.

 

[overgeeked]

Luke Crane's past behavior regarding Adam Koebel is one reason why I am hesistant about this project, but Jeremy Strandberg did ask about his potential involvement:

Cool. Now if only Luke Crane wasn’t involved.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

While I'm curious to see what Luke Crane's hit-or-miss ideas can get out of Dungeon World...

It doesn't sound like he's going to do any bold changes (that'd be needed), and I'm not in this hobby to fund creepy weirdos.

 

[innerdude]

This is sort of a head scratcher, to be honest.

• It's now 10+ years since initial release.
• It's been saddled with a massive black eye from one of its original creators.
• There's now a long line of successors / add ons in the same creative space (Stonetop, Perilous Wilds, Freebooters on the Frontier, Fellowship) that are near-universally agreed as improvements to the original.
• Blades in the Dark / Forged in the Dark didn't even exist when DW was first published.
• It's hardly a stretch to say that Ironsworn is treading pretty closely to the same ground as well . . . and Ironsworn + expansions has a larger following than DW at this point.
• Daggerheart is coming, and coming soon . . . and lives in the same creative space . . . and has infinitely more mindshare, audience, and potential backing.

True, DW was a Golden Ennie winning product, with a decent amount of sales . . . but does it really have enough brand equity now to warrant a second edition?

Like, I'm a big fan of PbtA / FitD style gaming in general, and fantasy PbtA in particular, and the statement of "Dungeon World 2.0 is on the way!" does absolutely nothing for me.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

This is sort of a head scratcher, to be honest.

• It's now 10+ years since initial release.
• It's been saddled with a massive black eye from one of its original creators.
• There's now a long line of successors / add ons in the same creative space (Stonetop, Perilous Wilds, Freebooters on the Frontier, Fellowship) that are near-universally agreed as improvements to the original.
• Blades in the Dark / Forged in the Dark didn't even exist when DW was first published.
• It's hardly a stretch to say that Ironsworn is treading pretty closely to the same ground as well . . . and Ironsworn + expansions has a larger following than DW at this point.
• Daggerheart is coming, and coming soon . . . and lives in the same creative space . . . and has infinitely more mindshare, audience, and potential backing.

True, DW was a Golden Ennie winning product, with a decent amount of sales . . . but does it really have enough brand equity now to warrant a second edition?

Like, I'm a big fan of PbtA / FitD style gaming in general, and fantasy PbtA in particular, and the statement of "Dungeon World 2.0 is on the way!" does absolutely nothing for me.

I might agree if the question here was, Will DW 2e become the only game you play for the next 10 years? But the notion of a cleaned-up version that's just out there as a product, for those who want a more "generic" take on D&D-style PbtA fantasy? What's the harm?

Granted, I'm basically always a fan of new editions of games—everything, imo, can use tweaking after almost any amount of exposure to a wider audience. But also, consider that you literally can't pick up Stonetop, Perilous Wilds, or Freebooters in a physical store (maybe Freebooters 1e, but not the in-development 2e). One would hope Stonetop would make it to shelves before a DW 2e, but at its current rate of development, there's truly no telling. And even once it's available in print, as much as I love Stonetop, it's a much more specific take on fantasy PbtA. Personally, I love its homesteading framing, but that's not for everyone, and makes it trickier to adapt it to other settings. DW is more versatile, and also not as OSR-ish as Freebooters.

I think, in the long view, a world where out-of-print, saddled-with-baggage, and imo, somewhat-sloppy-in-presentation DW gets replaced with a 2e is just a better one.

 

[innerdude]

I think, in the long view, a world where out-of-print, saddled-with-baggage, and imo, somewhat-sloppy-in-presentation DW gets replaced with a 2e is just a better one.

All true; can't disagree with this general sentiment. Having more, improved choices for RPG is certainly preferable to the alternative.

I guess I'm just skeptical that there's really any significant latent audience just waiting in the wings for DW 2.0.

But I suppose even it's just say, 1,000 total backers on the Kickstarter, it might be worth it for that audience.