Kinematics
Hero
There have been a lot of changes in how dual wielding works in the 2024 rule set. This post is my attempt to consolidate all the ways it works now.
So as not to mess with Str vs Dex, damage from ability mods will simply be designated as MOD.
In 2014, there was no real point in doing this. If one weapon had lower damage than the other, then you were just hurting yourself, and if both weapons had the same damage die, there was no meaningful difference in the result compared to just attacking with one weapon twice.
In 2024, however, weapons have Mastery properties, and wielding two weapons gives you access to two weapon Masteries. So it's entirely feasible to have a longsword in one hand and a battleaxe in the other, and attack once with the longsword for Sap, and once with the battleaxe for Topple. Or whip plus warhammer for Slow plus Push.
Note that you aren't required to attack with each weapon once. In the longsword+battleaxe example, if you attempted to Topple a creature and failed, you can attack with the battleaxe again to try again.
This simple form just requires that you have Extra Attack and sufficient weapon Masteries for the weapons you want to use.
To clarify, this is your set of Bonus Action options before making a Light weapon attack:
And this is your list after making a Light weapon attack:
Once your attack action is completed, you may then use your Bonus Action to select one of those items, and if you choose to attack, make that additional attack.
If you were wielding a shortsword and a handaxe, your attack sequence could look like this:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Handaxe (1d6+MOD dmg)
Bonus action: Handaxe (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
The Bonus Action list thus remains unmodified, and the attack sequence becomes:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Scimitar (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Nick): Scimitar (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
The Bonus Action list is very similar to before after the Light weapon's attack.
And this is what the attack sequence would look like using a shortsword and battleaxe:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Battleaxe (1d8+MOD dmg)
Bonus action: Battleaxe (1d8 dmg) (or 1d8+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Edit: Accounting for attack ordering.
There's nothing that requires that the Light weapon that triggers the extra attack has to be the mainhand weapon. You just have to attack with a Light weapon at some point during your attack. That means that the following is also valid:
Attack action: Battleaxe (1d8+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Bonus action: Battleaxe (1d8 dmg) (or 1d8+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
First:
An interesting note is that Nick is the only weapon mastery that does not include "with this weapon" type language. That means that it does not have to be the weapon that you make the extra dual wielding attack with.
With just Light weapons this doesn't really make any difference. However when combined with Dual Wielder, it allows the extra attack of the heavier weapon to still be made as part of the Attack action, rather than the Bonus Action, despite the heavier weapon not having the Nick mastery, as long as the Light weapon does have the Nick mastery.
In that case, your order of attacks could be:
Attack action: Battleaxe (1d8+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Scimitar (1d6+MOD dmg) [Nick]
Attack action (Nick): Battleaxe (1d8 dmg) (or 1d8+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Second:
While the Dual Wielder feat allows you to bypass the restriction that the second weapon must be Light, it doesn't require you to. It only requires that the weapon not be Two-Handed. But what if we return to using a Light weapon?
Well, when we attack with a Light weapon, the Light property itself allows for an extra attack with a second Light weapon. This is satisfied.
When we attack with a Light weapon, the Dual Wielder feat allows for an extra attack with a second weapon. This is satisfied.
And this is what our Bonus Action list looks like now, using a shortsword + handaxe:
Unfortunately, we only have one Bonus Action, which means we only get to use one of those additional attacks. At this point, nothing has changed compared to the previous forms other than a curiosity in the Bonus Action list.
But what if the second weapon has the Nick property?
Well, you don't need to push the extra attack into the Bonus Action list, but can instead make that attack as part of your Attack action directly. However, importantly, you can only use this feature once per turn. This is a strange restriction, until we fully explore this form of dual wielding.
So now what happens if we use a shortsword + scimitar? Instead of the above Bonus Action list, we get the following:
And this is what our attack sequence looks like:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Scimitar (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Nick): Scimitar (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Bonus action: Scimitar (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
So the fifth dual wielding form can make four attacks per turn using a combination of the Dual Wielder feat and the Nick weapon mastery. Note that the restriction of only applying Nick once per turn means you can't put all four attacks into the Attack action and still have your Bonus action free for other things.
Note that I said we could add our MOD to both additional attacks. From the fighting style:
And both additional attacks are the result of using a weapon that has the Light property. Thus both benefit from the Two-Weapon Fighting style.
At the moment I am rebuilding my DPR spreadsheet, and only have the barbarian done at the moment. So looking at that.
For damage output on the barbarian, if you start at 17 Str (because otherwise you end up with an odd Str value at level 8), take Dual Wielder at level 4, and take the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style at level 8, it's very close to on par. It's basically on par with a GWM, and PAM is only a bit ahead of the other two, by about 10%-15%. They're clustered close enough together that I would not find any of them a bad choice.
So while at first it may appear as if this were some broken exploit, it's actually a solid alternative to other high-performance builds.
Setup
For the purposes of this post, I'll be using a Fighter 5/Rogue 2 character, so it will have the features I want to demonstrate.So as not to mess with Str vs Dex, damage from ability mods will simply be designated as MOD.
First Form
Attack Action said:
The first form of dual wielding is very simple. When you attack, you attack with a weapon, and if you have extra attack you can attack twice. There is no restriction on the weapon you use. If you have two one-handed weapons, you can wield both at the same time. Thus, if you have Extra Attack, you can attack once with the first weapon, and once with the second weapon.Extra Attack said:
In 2014, there was no real point in doing this. If one weapon had lower damage than the other, then you were just hurting yourself, and if both weapons had the same damage die, there was no meaningful difference in the result compared to just attacking with one weapon twice.
In 2024, however, weapons have Mastery properties, and wielding two weapons gives you access to two weapon Masteries. So it's entirely feasible to have a longsword in one hand and a battleaxe in the other, and attack once with the longsword for Sap, and once with the battleaxe for Topple. Or whip plus warhammer for Slow plus Push.
Note that you aren't required to attack with each weapon once. In the longsword+battleaxe example, if you attempted to Topple a creature and failed, you can attack with the battleaxe again to try again.
This simple form just requires that you have Extra Attack and sufficient weapon Masteries for the weapons you want to use.
Second Form
The second form is what's more traditionally thought of when discussing dual wielding. This has been re-implemented under the Light property for weapons.An important point must be made in the framing of this rule. This isn't just, "Attack with a Light weapon, then attack again using another Light weapon." Rather, this creates another option for you to take with your Bonus Action. You may exercise the option of doing so at any point later in your turn. You are, however, restricted to only making one Bonus Action on a turn.Light said:
To clarify, this is your set of Bonus Action options before making a Light weapon attack:
| Item # | Action | Cause |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Cunning Action | Class Feature |
And this is your list after making a Light weapon attack:
| Item # | Action | Cause |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Cunning Action | Class Feature |
| 2 | Attack with second Light weapon | Attack with first Light weapon |
Once your attack action is completed, you may then use your Bonus Action to select one of those items, and if you choose to attack, make that additional attack.
If you were wielding a shortsword and a handaxe, your attack sequence could look like this:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Handaxe (1d6+MOD dmg)
Bonus action: Handaxe (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Third Form
The third form is brought about by the new Nick weapon mastery.In this case, the extra attack granted by attacking with a Light weapon is allowed to happen as part of the Attack action which caused it, rather than as a later Bonus action.Nick said:
The Bonus Action list thus remains unmodified, and the attack sequence becomes:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Scimitar (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Nick): Scimitar (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Fourth Form
The fourth form comes in when we take the Dual Wielder feat.The additional attack granted here is very similar to that granted by the Light property, but without the restriction that the second weapon must also have the Light property. This would allow you to attack once with a shortsword, and be granted an additional attack with the battleaxe held in your offhand.Dual Wielder said:
The Bonus Action list is very similar to before after the Light weapon's attack.
| Item # | Action | Cause |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Cunning Action | Class Feature |
| 2 | Attack with second weapon | Attack with Light weapon, Dual Wielder feat |
And this is what the attack sequence would look like using a shortsword and battleaxe:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Battleaxe (1d8+MOD dmg)
Bonus action: Battleaxe (1d8 dmg) (or 1d8+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Edit: Accounting for attack ordering.
There's nothing that requires that the Light weapon that triggers the extra attack has to be the mainhand weapon. You just have to attack with a Light weapon at some point during your attack. That means that the following is also valid:
Attack action: Battleaxe (1d8+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Bonus action: Battleaxe (1d8 dmg) (or 1d8+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Fifth Form
The fifth form is the interesting combination of the third and fourth forms. There are two ways this can manifest.First:
An interesting note is that Nick is the only weapon mastery that does not include "with this weapon" type language. That means that it does not have to be the weapon that you make the extra dual wielding attack with.
With just Light weapons this doesn't really make any difference. However when combined with Dual Wielder, it allows the extra attack of the heavier weapon to still be made as part of the Attack action, rather than the Bonus Action, despite the heavier weapon not having the Nick mastery, as long as the Light weapon does have the Nick mastery.
In that case, your order of attacks could be:
Attack action: Battleaxe (1d8+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Scimitar (1d6+MOD dmg) [Nick]
Attack action (Nick): Battleaxe (1d8 dmg) (or 1d8+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Second:
While the Dual Wielder feat allows you to bypass the restriction that the second weapon must be Light, it doesn't require you to. It only requires that the weapon not be Two-Handed. But what if we return to using a Light weapon?
Well, when we attack with a Light weapon, the Light property itself allows for an extra attack with a second Light weapon. This is satisfied.
When we attack with a Light weapon, the Dual Wielder feat allows for an extra attack with a second weapon. This is satisfied.
And this is what our Bonus Action list looks like now, using a shortsword + handaxe:
| Item # | Action | Cause |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Cunning Action | Class Feature |
| 2 | Attack with handaxe | Attack with shortsword (Light property) |
| 3 | Attack with handaxe | Attack with shortsword (Dual Wielder feat) |
Unfortunately, we only have one Bonus Action, which means we only get to use one of those additional attacks. At this point, nothing has changed compared to the previous forms other than a curiosity in the Bonus Action list.
But what if the second weapon has the Nick property?
Well, you don't need to push the extra attack into the Bonus Action list, but can instead make that attack as part of your Attack action directly. However, importantly, you can only use this feature once per turn. This is a strange restriction, until we fully explore this form of dual wielding.
So now what happens if we use a shortsword + scimitar? Instead of the above Bonus Action list, we get the following:
| Item # | Action | Cause |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Cunning Action | Class Feature |
| 2 | Attack with scimitar | Attack with shortsword (Dual Wielder feat) |
And this is what our attack sequence looks like:
Attack action: Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Extra): Shortsword (1d6+MOD dmg) or Scimitar (1d6+MOD dmg)
Attack action (Nick): Scimitar (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
Bonus action: Scimitar (1d6 dmg) (or 1d6+MOD damage with the TWF fighting style)
So the fifth dual wielding form can make four attacks per turn using a combination of the Dual Wielder feat and the Nick weapon mastery. Note that the restriction of only applying Nick once per turn means you can't put all four attacks into the Attack action and still have your Bonus action free for other things.
Note that I said we could add our MOD to both additional attacks. From the fighting style:
Two-Weapon Fighting said:
And both additional attacks are the result of using a weapon that has the Light property. Thus both benefit from the Two-Weapon Fighting style.
Performance
And how does this compare?At the moment I am rebuilding my DPR spreadsheet, and only have the barbarian done at the moment. So looking at that.
For damage output on the barbarian, if you start at 17 Str (because otherwise you end up with an odd Str value at level 8), take Dual Wielder at level 4, and take the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style at level 8, it's very close to on par. It's basically on par with a GWM, and PAM is only a bit ahead of the other two, by about 10%-15%. They're clustered close enough together that I would not find any of them a bad choice.
So while at first it may appear as if this were some broken exploit, it's actually a solid alternative to other high-performance builds.
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