Dragon Challenge help my friend B.A.D.D. !

[Rashak Mani]

Do you think six 20th lvl characters with full gold allocation are an even match for a CR25 Red Dragon ? What numbers would be a fair fight ? 4 ? 5 ? I think 6 is too much...

No prestige classes ( I didnt make these rules up... I will only DM the encounter ) ... high stats and lots of equipement... none over 200,000 GP. Only one round preparation.

The biggest problem I see is the fact that they know its a Red Dragon at maximum size... so they have a lot of info on what they will face. In order to give the Dragon player a small edge I thought about asking for help here. Give me the old BADD posts... I sent him the BADD site already... spell recomendations and tactics for such a specific encounter.

Save a poor Gargantuan Dragon from needless slaughter...

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

In a one-shot fight starting at X yards, the dragon is probably in trouble.

In an honest dragon hunt, a great wyrm red with his lair and Ally/slave guardians/helpers should have more than a fighting chance.

Dragon fights should never be presented as a sparing match.

IMO, the ONLY way to play an encounter with a great wyrm (any color) would involve lots of role playing and weeks of game time preparations.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Call it a Duel... its not part of a game... they challenged this fellow to win as a Dragon in a "fair" fight... probably trying to prove some point...

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

That is fine, of course. They will probably win, the dragon will probably die.

On behalf of B.A.D.D. (or at least myself) I disavow any knowledge of, or support for, any dueling great wyrms.

Further I repudiate this action as deplorable and call for extreme economic sanctions.

 

[maddman75]

Remember that the dragon is a 19th level sorcerer - this is the most important. The dragon's abilities will be enhanced by magic before the group ever gets close.

First, give him Contingency saying "If I get below 100 hit points, cast heal"

Second, open the battle with a Time Stop. During the stop, get improved invisible, take a move (so they don't know where you are at) and gate in a couple Balors.

The time stop lets off, the characters have two balors to deal with and the dragon appears to be gone. Another time stop, buff with stoneskin and haste. If you have time, summon some more demons. MIght have to use some Summon Monster VIII, only 4 9th level spells.

Now cast a harm and throw it on one of the characters - (Rule lawyers - can a dragon deliver a touch attack with a flyby attack?) If it isn't houseruled, this is harsh. Remember the dragon is invisible, they will get no dex and he gets and extra +4 to hit. If the demons don't finish them off, use a breath weapon.

If you get dispelled, imp invis again and MOVE. Dragons have a huge movement rate. Move away, buff, come at them again.

This battle should not even be remotely fair. Dragons do not get to be Great Wyrms by landing on the ground and letting adventurers cut them up.

 

[Jairami]

Have the dragon take the leadership feat and bring his 17th level sorceror cohort along.

Also have the sorceror take all kinds of spell dc feats and the archmage class as well as the leadership feat and have him bring his 15-16th level cleric cohort along.

Hey? He's just using his feats right?

 

[Krystoff]

Initiative!!!!

The Dragon needs to Win initiative to have any kind of hope... period.

If not, they are going to use the same tactics he would use. They will Time Stop and then they will rip him a new one. Not sure how to get his initiative up there though.

There are several nice high level spells from Relics and Rituals that are pretty nasty. See the Smackdown thread for some great examples.

Anyways, good luck and let us know how it turned out.

 

[twjensen]

Re: Initiative!!!!

The Dragon needs to Win initiative to have any kind of hope...

Not necessarily, If the dragon has an item that produces a nice lil' anti-magic field, he can just physically pummel the party with fly-by attacks. Nothing can go toe-to-toe in raw physical combat with a great wyrm.

Well, Ok, A GREAT BIG GARGANTUAN anti-magic field.

 

[Krystoff]

I thought of the anti-magic field as well but didn't know how DM's would rule the 10'ft emanation centered on the caster. Does that mean it goes 10'ft past the dragon? Or does that mean it is centered somewhere on his back?

Another thought I had was if the dragon has time to prepare...

Get a Spiked Chain (Make it +5 and give it extra damage enchantments if its ruled that when it goes out of the AM field it still has enchantments)

Have someone Polymorph him into a Titan (or Planetar if dragons can become outsiders)

Cast Anti-Magic field

BAB gives attacks with a weapon of +49/44/39/34/29/24/19/14/9/4 for 10 attacks
(If I am remembering correctly that BAB is limited to 4 attacks because no class goes above 20) Modify this by STR for a highest attack at 62 and a lowest at 17.

Of course, I always think of these combos that never work so I could easily be wrong about the attacks.

 

[Krystoff]

Hmm, another question.

Do you keep the DR 20/+3 if you are polymorphed? If not, then the Dragon Anti-Magic field is the way to go. Otherwise, the Titan/Planetar would rock