D&D 5E Does the "Friends" cantrip need a fix?

[abirdcall]

TLDR version:

Do any or all of the following -
1) Extend the duration to 10 minutes
2) Explicitly make the casting subtle, woven into your speech
3) Make the target suspicious of the entire interaction and realize he's been magically meddled with afterwards, but not innately hostile.

There are no verbal components. You just apply makeup to your face.

It is still terrible.

For those who want a no save way to gain advantage to a charisma check and due to the nature of the situation a help action cannot be used then Enhance Ability is the way to go.

I think making it 10 minutes is what it needs and it must still be used with caution. It's also still just giving advantage, it isn't letting you do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Friends gives advantage on all Charisma checks towards a creature for 1 minute. Advantage is pretty good. But I have two problems with the spell.

1. I'm aware the spell is only a cantrip and must have a limitation of some sort to prevent using it on every Charisma check. But I think that turning the target hostile is pretty harsh. This way I wouldn't even use it on some merchant.

"Hostile" in DMG terms doesn't mean "will attack you". It means "very disinclined to help you."

Still, it is a pretty bad cantrip. The main use I can think of for it is intimidating someone, because knowing that someone messed with your head in order to intimidate you is not noticeably less scary than knowing that they just intimidated you with a hammer or something--in other words, intimidating always turns people hostile anyway. It could also be useful while in disguise, for sneaking past club bouncers and other people who have incentives not to immediately alert anyone to the fact that they just got sweet-talked into giving someone privileges that they shouldn't have. And of course it is useful to 14th level Enchanters, because for them it has no downsides. But for everybody else, Enhance Ability (Charisma) has all of the same upsides and none of the downsides. Also, Friends only works on one target at a time, but Enhance Ability (Charisma) works on everybody you're talking to.

I like the idea of extending the duration to 10 minutes. That would give it more of a niche. Consider that proposal stolen for my house-rules.

 

[Coredump]

I think its fine the way it is. Its a cantrip, not a 2nd level spell. It gives you a full minute to get the info you need, just be a bit careful about when you use the spell. There are certain situations where it is just way awesome.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

For power level, compare it to guidance, which you can keep casting again and again and again to get a bonus to any ability check you want. Advantage is slightly better than the d4, but it is also limited to Charisma only.

The balance is probably intended to prevent you from using it like guidance...for some reason.

What I do keep everything as is, except for two things.

1. The target doesn't automatically know you influenced it with magic and become hostile afterwards (though it might suspect something weird is going on, depending on how you interacted with it).
2. A creature can't be affected again by this spell (cast by the same character) until 24 hours have passed.

That's all the balance it needs. You can only target the same creature 1/day, they can't be hostile before you cast it, they might get suspicious depending on what you do, and you get advantage instead of a d4. That's a whole lot of restrictions for that tiny bump in average results.

 

[Shiroiken]

As with Charm spells, I have the target make an Intelligence/Arcana check against the caster's spell DC after the duration expires. If they fail, they justify their actions internally, rather than becoming innately hostile. Success has the target be fully aware, thus hostile (and probably a bit vindictive).

 

[Minigiant]

Friends is good when targeting people who are weak and unimportant but can help you one time.

Need a random guard to turn around so you can smuggle a wanted criminal across the street.

Friends and ask him a question or for a favor that requires him or her to turn the other way. So what if he's hostile, he's some dumb guard. He can't know why you friendsed him in order to bust your plan. What's he gonna do? Attack you and leave his post? Attack you tomorrow? Pfff. Tell his superior "Someone casted a spell on me to like him and then asked for directions to the butcher's shop. THAT FIEND!! A friendsing fiend."

Sadly it's practically Sorcerer only since they get 4 starting cantrips and few of the other good noncombat cantrips.

 

[Mephista]

Sadly it's practically Sorcerer only since they get 4 starting cantrips and few of the other good noncombat cantrips.

Warlocks + Disguise Self Invocation. That is all. *Mic drops, walks off stage*

 

[ExploderWizard]

I think adding an INT save for the target to realize that they have been mind tricked would be appropriate. A really dull person might not even realize that magic was used against them but it would be very risky to use it on the sharper minded targets.

As it stands even the dumbest ogre (and that is saying something!) knows instantly that magic was used.

 

[ShadowSeeker]

Friends is good when targeting people who are weak and unimportant but can help you one time.

Need a random guard to turn around so you can smuggle a wanted criminal across the street.

As I see it, Friends would be of no help in such a situation. Even if we assume you don't have to spend some spell duration to talk to the guard and get the full minute to get away, after that minute the guard would turn hostile. In my opinion the appropriate reaction of a hostile guard would be to follow you to question or even arrest you. The guard might even sound alarm.

At best, Friends would give you a minute head start. Therefore as a player I wouldn't cast Friends in such a situation, but try the Charisma check without advange.

 

[Minigiant]

As I see it, Friends would be of no help in such a situation. Even if we assume you don't have to spend some spell duration to talk to the guard and get the full minute to get away, after that minute the guard would turn hostile. In my opinion the appropriate reaction of a hostile guard would be to follow you to question or even arrest you. The guard might even sound alarm.

At best, Friends would give you a minute head start. Therefore as a player I wouldn't cast Friends in such a situation, but try the Charisma check without advange.

"Alert the guards! That guy casted a spell on me to ask me directions! Kill him!"

friends makes them hostile but doesn't make people crazy. There are levels of hostility.