Does Exceptional Deflection count against Magic Missiles?

[javcs]

I didn't mention that it should be stopped because it's "kind of like shooting a magical arrow." Those are your words.

<snip>

The reason it can't be used as a sneak attack is because the spell description itself says, " Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out" which prevents precision-based damage.

For the first part, you quoted flavor text, not part of the rules text of the spell description, describing MM as a missile of magical energy, guess what? arrows are missiles, too.

For the second part, that's not why you can't sneak attack with it, you can't sneak attack with it because MM is not a weapon-like spell as defined by CArc.

I find that text usually undergoes this really cool metamorphisis into "flavor text" whenever it becomes inconvenient in a rules discussion. It's an attack. It does damage. It flies through the air as a magical missile. It's an attack with a range. It's not a melee attack. It's a ranged attack.

So my epic monk with exceptional deflection can deflect fireballs? Which is what your interpretation supports.

Additionally, 'A missile of magical energy . . . blah, blah' could as easily been described as 'A hand of force slapping . . . blah, blah' and then we'd have Magic Pimp Slap with focus: gauntlet, instead of focus: dart.

 

[molonel]

No ambiguity here whatsoever IMHO - the feat doesn't stop magic missiles, since they don't meet the criteria of what the feat does block...

I think ya'll are a little too used to dealing with people who want to pull the wool over the eyes of their DM. This was not a question of ambiguity and slipping one past an unwary game master. It's simply a quesiton of meaning and application, and hardly an illegitimate one, though it's obviously not a question that comes up very often.

javcs's answer encompassed more, and gave a reference, rather than simply explaining how obvious the answer was, or trying to ascertain my motives for asking.

At epic levels, a magic missile is easily thwarted or blocked. Chain Missile is a bit more problematic, but still, it's hardly a game breaker.

I was just curious what people thought.

 

[molonel]

For the first part, you quoted flavor text, not part of the rules text of the spell description, describing MM as a missile of magical energy, guess what? arrows are missiles, too.

You know, I acknowledged your answer as a good one, so I don't see why you feel the need to come back and defend someone else's inferior answer.

It's a missile composed of magical energy, within the game. That's what it is. Whether it's blue or green or orange is flavor. It must have line of effect in order to connect. It's a missile. Asking if an epic feat designed to stop missile attacks can stop it is a legitimate question.

For the second part, that's not why you can't sneak attack with it, you can't sneak attack with it because MM is not a weapon-like spell as defined by CArc.

And prior to that, it was handed down in an article by the sage. One does not preclude the other from being a legitimate explanation, and they overlap, rather than forming a V-shaped either/or.

So my epic monk with exceptional deflection can deflect fireballs? Which is what your interpretation supports.

No, it doesn't, because that's an area effect which targets nobody. Don't follow up a good answer with a silly comparison.

Additionally, 'A missile of magical energy . . . blah, blah' could as easily been described as 'A hand of force slapping . . . blah, blah' and then we'd have Magic Pimp Slap with focus: gauntlet, instead of focus: dart.

Again, that's a bad comparison, because the Bigby spells and similar effects count as melee attacks.

 

[Sithobi1]

In order to see whether Magic Missile is a ranged attack, we must see what an attack IS.
Per the D&D glossary, an attack is:

Any of numerous actions intended to harm, disable, or neutralize an opponent. The outcome of an attack is determined by an attack roll.

Thus, the definition of an attack requires an attack roll. Magic Missile does not have an attack roll. Thus, it is not an attack.
The Bigby line of spells also does not have an attack roll, and as such, is not a melee attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In order to see whether Magic Missile is a ranged attack, we must see what an attack IS.

From the Magic Overview chapter:
Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.

Now, since Exceptional Deflection is not a spell description, this definition of 'attack' is likely inapplicable... it applies to, for example, the Sanctuary spell.

But it does demonstrate that for certain purposes, Magic Missile is indeed considered an attack.

-Hyp.

 

[RainOfSteel]

ranged attack: Any attack made at a distance with a ranged weapon, as opposed to a melee attack.

Magic Missile doesn't fit into this definition.

My call: The feat Exceptional Deflection cannot stop Magic Missiles.

EDIT-----------------

Update: Allow me to expand that to say: Exceptional Deflection doesn't work on the vast majority of spells because virtually none of them can be considered "ranged weapons". (There are undoubtedly exceptions.)

Exceptional Deflection only works on ranged attacks, and those only come from ranged weapons.

 

[Aaron L]

It doesn't matter if Magic Missile is an attack or not, because the only spells it affects are those that require an attack roll.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It doesn't matter if Magic Missile is an attack or not, because the only spells it affects are those that require an attack roll.

The argument is that what the feat deflects is ranged attacks, and it specifies that a spell requiring a ranged touched attack roll is included.

So what is deflected?

a/ Spells requiring a ranged touch attack.
b/ Any ranged attack that is not a spell requiring a ranged touch attack.

We know that Magic Missile does not satisfy condition a/; it does not require a ranged touch attack.

What the OP is proposing is that if Magic Missile can satisfy condition b/ (that is, it is a ranged attack that is not a spell requiring a ranged touch attack), it is eligible for deflection.

We know that Magic Missile has a range (Medium); we know that by the definition in the Magic Overview, it is an attack (it damages an opponent); thus, as an attack that has a range, it could be described as a 'ranged attack'.

Is this sufficient to satisfy condition b/? I say no, it isn't. It's only possible to describe it as a ranged attack by taking those words outside of the context in which the feat uses them.

-Hyp.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I say that no, it shouldn't deflect magic missile. The feat specifically mentions spells which require a ranged attack roll. If it was meant to apply to any spell that is a "ranged attack", it would have said so, IMO. After all, if you let it deflect magic missiles, wouldn't you have to allow it to deflect fireballs and lightning bolts as well?

 

[ainbimagh]

The argument is that what the feat deflects is ranged attacks, and it specifies that a spell requiring a ranged touched attack roll is included.

So what is deflected?

a/ Spells requiring a ranged touch attack.
b/ Any ranged attack that is not a spell requiring a ranged touch attack.

We know that Magic Missile does not satisfy condition a/; it does not require a ranged touch attack.

What the OP is proposing is that if Magic Missile can satisfy condition b/ (that is, it is a ranged attack that is not a spell requiring a ranged touch attack), it is eligible for deflection.

We know that Magic Missile has a range (Medium); we know that by the definition in the Magic Overview, it is an attack (it damages an opponent); thus, as an attack that has a range, it could be described as a 'ranged attack'.

Is this sufficient to satisfy condition b/? I say no, it isn't. It's only possible to describe it as a ranged attack by taking those words outside of the context in which the feat uses them.

-Hyp.

Except that the glossary has a definition for RANGED ATTACK as a term, not as two seperated words. And since it has a definition for RANGED ATTACK as a full and complete term, you cant just break down the aspect and expect it to be applied to every situation. You must defer to the documented definition of the TERM as it is applied to the game. Otherwise by definition scrying is an attack and could be deflected, since its ranged and it requires a savings through (see magical overview) so instead of arguing semantics based on the english language, argue semantics based on glossary definitions.

So therefor I quote myself from earlier..

Is magic missle a ranged attack? (no its a spell)
See: Ranged Attack
Any attack made at a distance with a ranged weapon, as opposed to a melee attack

and ...
Is scorching ray a ranged attack? No. Its a ranged spell with an attack roll.