Does anyone think Harm is too powerful of a spell?

[Derren]

Re: Who Summoned ME?

By the same token, Harm only becomes broken when DMs use munchkinesque tactics to make it an insta-kill, like having all the evil cleric's minions ready their actions for the moment the Harm spell is cast. What came first, the munchkin or the power-gamer?

What was that about insulting other forum users again?

You imply that every DM whos BBEGs use Harm are power-DMing munchkins, or did I get a wrong expression?

It may be ok for you that, despite al logic, the minions doesn´t attack the Fighter because he was harmed and charge past him to attack the other, better defended party members, but I won´t play them so stupid. May I ask if you also don´t use death spells agains PCs?

[edit]: Removed some text parts which could be considered as flaming

 

[Fenes 2]

Tom, if an npc-cleric prepares harm for the day, don't you think he will probably instruct his minions to stick to a plan when he uses them? Like have an archer or two stand ready before he uses harm? What is munchkinny about that? It is about as powergaming as a cleric calling the party to come closer to himself before casting healing circle, or the party wizard casting fireball before the melee fighters charge the enemy. At the level they have access to harm odds are the NPCs in question know enough about spellcasting (especially since heal is of rthe same level) to use it effectively and not waste it.

Do you have your NPCs with submachine guns or sniper rifles also drop them and charge with their knives (one after another) instead of just killing their target(s) in order to avoid "powergaming"?

 

[Celtavian]

Re

By the same token, Harm only becomes broken when DMs use munchkinesque tactics to make it an insta-kill, like having all the evil cleric's minions ready their actions for the moment the Harm spell is cast. What came first, the munchkin or the power-gamer?

This is pretty unbelievable. How would you expect an evil cleric to use Harm? Cast it and hope the party couldn't heal the person it hit?

Rarely are PC or NPC clerics by themselves. How then would they use a spell best used in conjunction with another member of their group striking to kill?

Personally, when I DM, my NPC's actually try to kill the party in the most effective way available to them. They don't pussy foot around waiting for the party to get set up.

I try to balance the encounters by giving NPC's relatively equal power to the PC's. Then I play the NPC's to the best of their abilities whether or not that means my party will die.

I feel that by doing this I am pushing my players to use the best possible tactics they can muster. I don't see anything wrong with this.

Why don't you just admit that Harm is often a guaranteed death spell with few truly effective defenses given the capalities of an entire party. None of the defenses you and Lucius have listed are effective against a Harm cast by a party supported cleric, which account for the majority of game play situations in D&D.

 

[Dagger75]

Poor poor Harm horse, they are beating you once again.


I think there should be a Mass Harm spell just like a Mass Heal. My next Epic Evil bad cleric will make that spell, yup thats what I'm going to do.

 

[Henry]

Amazing. Simply, Freakin' Amazing.