D&D 5E DM HELP! My players killed Strahd too easily!

[Ganymede81]

You can't wrest Misty Escape to support that line of reasoning. If we're into strict readings here, then that means a Vampire's Misty Escape actually does nothing. Since Misty Escape substitutes for falling unconscious, and monsters die at zero HP instead of falling unconscious, then only PC vampires can benefit from Misty Escape.

There is nothing in Misty Escape that makes the vampire immune to injury or death while in mist form.

"A monster usually dies or is destroyed when it drops to 0 hit points."

"When Strahd is reduced to 0 hit points, he turns into mist and retreats to his coffin"

It is quite simple. While "a monster usually dies or is destroyed when it drops to 0 hit points," Strahd "turns into mist and retreats to his coffin" when he "is reduced to 0 hit points."


Please let me know if you are still grappling with this and I'll try to make it more clear.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Then it makes the need for sunlight completely superfluous. Which I don't think is how Straus is meant to be run.

If you can kill him without sunlight, then there's literally no need to find the Sunsword and Holy Symbol. Which is the reason why I've read the rules as that once Strahd is in mist form, he doesn't get killed or can be killed... he just flies back to his coffin to regenerate. And which is why you need one or both artifacts, as they are the only way to actually kill him once he reaches 0 hp, as they are the only methods of having sunlight at hand (provided the PCs haven't outleveled the adventure and they now have spells that can also generate it.)

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[flametitan]

You can't wrest Misty Escape to support that line of reasoning. If we're into strict readings here, then that means a Vampire's Misty Escape actually does nothing. Since Misty Escape substitutes for falling unconscious, and monsters die at zero HP instead of falling unconscious, then only PC vampires can benefit from Misty Escape.

There is nothing in Misty Escape that makes the vampire immune to injury or death while in mist form.

"Specific beats general," is the rule you want. Misty escape is a specific rule, and therefore overrules the general rules of how death works.

As there's no rules for dropping a creature past zero beyond death saves and Massive damage, and misty escape is a more specific rule than death saves (or dying at 0), then Misty Escape is immune to taking more damage unless you interact with the massive damage rules, and even then I'm not sure how they interact (Or how easy it would be to deal 150 damage in a single attack..)

 

[marcelvdpol]

Strahd can be a very nasty villain to fight, but if a party can take him on in a party vs strahd situation they are quite likely to come out on top (5th level or higher) especially if the party still has all its resources.

However, a straight up fight is not the style thatvstrahd should employ. He prefersnto catch the party when they are low on resources, at a severe tactical disadvantage or with lots of allies to occupy the party while he is staying on the outskirts of the battle. He will only confront the party directly when either forced to, challenged or if he is emotionally engaged / angered.

There is a lot of detailed information in the book regarding how to roleplay and employ strahd effectively. You get the most out of the campaign if strahd remains unbeatable and scary until the very end. Rather, if strahd is in dangerbof being reduced to zero hitpoints he should retreat rather than continue the fight.

 

[Ganymede81]

Then it makes the need for sunlight completely superfluous. Which I don't think is how Straus is meant to be run.

If you can kill him without sunlight, then there's literally no need to find the Sunsword and Holy Symbol. Which is the reason why I've read the rules as that once Strahd is in mist form, he doesn't get killed or can be killed... he just flies back to his coffin to regenerate. And which is why you need one or both artifacts, as they are the only way to actually kill him once he reaches 0 hp, as they are the only methods of having sunlight at hand (provided the PCs haven't outleveled the adventure and they now have spells that can also generate it.)

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Not quite. In order to "utterly destroy" Strahd, i.e. to kill him in a way that triggers the end of the adventure, you must kill him in his resting place. Strictly speaking, none of the three artifacts are actually necessary for this, though it does make it significantly easier.

The adventure doesn't really provide a mechanic for what happens when you "kill" Strahd but don't "utterly destroy" him, but I just have him come back to life in his coffin during the next nightfall.

Spoiler: even if you do "utterly destroy" Strahd, he still comes back to life after several months.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm surprised this is even an argument.

The need to pursue the vampire back to his coffin and slay him permanently is a part of the classic literature, going back to well before D&D existed. Any party remotely high enough level to take on a vampire almost assuredly has magical means of causing damage.

So we have one interpretation of the vampire's "turn to mist at 0 hit points" ability that supports its classic nature and provides a major portion of what makes the creature a unique challenge. And we have another that causes the PCs a minor inconvenience for a fraction of a round before they kill it just like everything else.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know which I, and all the DMs I know, would go for.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

"Specific beats general," is the rule you want. Misty escape is a specific rule, and therefore overrules the general rules of how death works.

As there's no rules for dropping a creature past zero beyond death saves and Massive damage, and misty escape is a more specific rule than death saves (or dying at 0), then Misty Escape is immune to taking more damage unless you interact with the massive damage rules, and even then I'm not sure how they interact (Or how easy it would be to deal 150 damage in a single attack..)

I've said all I have to say about the death saves part, so I'll move on to something else I find mildly interesting: what do you do if your DM rules that Strahd at zero HP is immune to death save failures but not massive damage?

It doesn't have to be a 150 damage in a single attack. Strahd is resistant but not immune to necrotic damage, so if you can get something with a necrotic life drain effect (e.g. Chasme, Wraith, or Vampire Spawn) to beat up on the mist cloud for a while, his HP maximum can be reduced to the point where you can insta-kill him in a single blow, which may or may not be from the same creature that is life-draining him. (Or it can just drain his max HP to zero, which will do the same job.)

 

[flametitan]

I've said all I have to say about the death saves part, so I'll move on to something else I find mildly interesting: what do you do if your DM rules that Strahd at zero HP is immune to death save failures but not massive damage?

It doesn't have to be a 150 damage in a single attack. Strahd is resistant but not immune to necrotic damage, so if you can get something with a necrotic life drain effect (e.g. Chasme, Wraith, or Vampire Spawn) to beat up on the mist cloud for a while, his HP maximum can be reduced to the point where you can insta-kill him in a single blow, which may or may not be from the same creature that is life-draining him. (Or it can just drain his max HP to zero, which will do the same job.)

Thank you. I keep forgetting minor things like this that could do such a thing. Doesn't help that Strahd is limited to a 20 foot movement speed, with no actions allowed to speed it up, and thus no outrun your wraith. (Killing a Vampire with a Vampire Spawn feels weird, though.)

 

[Yunru]

Thank you. I keep forgetting minor things like this that could do such a thing. Doesn't help that Strahd is limited to a 20 foot movement speed, with no actions allowed to speed it up, and thus no outrun your wraith. (Killing a Vampire with a Vampire Spawn feels weird, though.)

Every character can Dash though?

 

[Ganymede81]

I've said all I have to say about the death saves part, so I'll move on to something else I find mildly interesting: what do you do if your DM rules that Strahd at zero HP is immune to death save failures but not massive damage?

Force him to retreat to his coffin, place the Tome of Strahd on his chest, have a cleric hold up the Symbol of Ravenkind, then stab him through both the Tome and his heart at once with the Sunblade.