Design and Development: Cosmology

[Geron Raveneye]

I hate it when game companies create more work for me rather than less.

Yeah, but I think that's the point...4E will be a completely different animal compared to its progenitors. So essentially, you're going to try to port over D&D stuff into a "new game". You could as well try to port AD&D stuff into Earthdawn, or Exalted, or any other fantasy RPG that has its own underpinnings which are different from what you worked with so far. And by trying this, you create all that work yourself. I mean, the designers expressively recommended dropping all your old stuff, and starting over completely. That alone is a pretty good pointer what they think of backwards compatibility.

 

[Intrope]

I hope the Astral Sea is a "sea." Otherwise, how can you have Githyanki pirates?

Does that make Githzeri Ninjas?

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, but I think that's the point...4E will be a completely different animal compared to its progenitors. So essentially, you're going to try to port over D&D stuff into a "new game". You could as well try to port AD&D stuff into Earthdawn, or Exalted, or any other fantasy RPG that has its own underpinnings which are different from what you worked with so far. And by trying this, you create all that work yourself. I mean, the designers expressively recommended dropping all your old stuff, and starting over completely. That alone is a pretty good pointer what they think of backwards compatibility.

No, I really doubt that. D&D is still D&D, and all versions of D&D ever produced still resemble each other tons more than they resemble anything else.

I don't know why anyone would think this is any harder to do---convert adventures because of some shifts in planar geography, that is. It sounds like for the most part the same planes will all be there. There may be a few adventures that heavily depend on the Ethereal plane or something (? I dunno, are there?) that won't convert easily, but most adventures tend to depend on stuff more like The Abyss, which still exists in (apparently) more or less the same form it always has. I think the claim that this will be a lot of work to convert adventures is specious, unless you're heavily dependent on one or two really bizarre and unusual adventures.

It's also specious to assume that because you're playing 4e you need to use the included cosmology. If you prefer the Great Wheel, I don't see any reason why you can't continue to use it with the new mechanics.

 

[kenmarable]

I see the Astral Sea as killing the Great Wheel and the Phlogiston and taking its things. (You got your Planescape in my Spelljammer. You got your Spelljammer in my Planescape).

Planejamming!! (Those two quirky settings always were a nice fit.)

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Does that make Githzeri Ninjas?

Well, they're already monkish, are they not? 'Tis a very small step from there. The question then becomes, "where are the dinosaurs?"

 

[frankthedm]

I mean, they are going out of their way with the "points of light" to make you and your neighbors 10 miles away more isolated, yet they are making other planes of existence more accessible?

Doors usually swing both ways. If players can get out there, things can get in.

While PCs might be able to survive in those places, normal folks won't. They ain't moving in to the Fae realm or Corpseville, though those from beyond might find our realm more habitable...

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

First off, LOVE IT, but you probably guessed that. Baaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Secondly, I feel the two new coterminous planes, Feywild and Shadowfell (nothing but nouns in there, guys), are both solidly sword & sorcery type places as well as enhancing the points of light feel. Being mirrors of the world, and so close on a cosmological scale, means that 'slipping' between them accidentally in resonant areas (groves under full and new moons, graveyards, etc) is likely (at least, IMO).

Thirdly, GVDammerung; if your only interest in 4e threads is being "transfixed by a NASCAR-like "watch it for the spectacular crashes"", is there any chance you could do so to yourself? I get it, you don't like 4e and want it to fail based on the insane notion that they'll then a) release a new edition b) design this new edition by going backwards. I can put that in my sig if it'll make you feel better about not reminding us every time they drop a new column. This comes only from a user with no power and a tiny post count, but as a favor, stop relieving yourself in the punch bowl just because the party's not to your taste.

 

[Remathilis]

I do not see Bill Balor and Vinnie Vrock sharing a 2 room Flat in a 1.000 floor Spire in Abyssia. A City growing so fast that even Zeus Inc. (the multiverse' foremost lightning company) will invest a substantial amount to build a branch office there.

I guess you haven't heard of the pilot for the D&D Sitcom: "There's Hell to Pay in the Abyss" then, have you?

 

[Remathilis]

"where are the dinosaurs?"

Read through the rest of this thread, they're here.

(I kid, I kid!)

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm just going to quote this, because I think it's worth repeating.

Thirdly, GVDammerung; if your only interest in 4e threads is being "transfixed by a NASCAR-like "watch it for the spectacular crashes"", is there any chance you could do so to yourself?

There are people on these boards who don't like the changes and who are actually contributing to the dialogue in a meaningful way. I would like to thank them for remaining sane and reasonable.