TolumvireOfArendur
First Post
I would pose to anyone a strategic challenge that my D&D group has been experimenting with a great deal. It goes as follows: Can anyone create a 20th level D&D character, using any 3.5 rulebook, that can kill Demogorgon, the Prince of Demons, in his CR 23 version presented in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss? Background for the challenge is as follows:
We often test out simulation characters, to play-test high various builds at low and high levels alike, and often, we pit the characters against each other, as well as against suitably powerful monsters. The best 20th level characters would be pitted against Demon Lords, using the stats presented in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss.
It arose that the one Demon Lord that could not be beaten was Demogorgon, Prince of Demons, who was, of course, the most powerful one in the book. Not without precedent, as the version presented is CR 23, and there is no way a character of 20th level should be able to beat him. However, by combing various rule-books, and experimenting with min-max builds, one can create extremely overpowered characters capable of defeating monsters far more powerful then level alone would indicate.
Despite this, no one in my group could create a character capable of defeating Demogorgon. All characters created, from Paladin, to Wizard, to Cleric, were defeated within a few rounds, and only the Monk character we designed actually survived to "escape". I will add that my group contains a couple of serious powergamers, who have been playing for many years, yet admitted that it was close-to-impossible to win the challenge.
I now present the challenge to anyone who wishes to try. I am certain that there is a character build out there that can succeed, so I am not so much interested in vindicating Demogorgon's superiority, but rather discovering the build in question. The "rules" of the challenge are as follows:
-The character may be of any class, prestige class, or multiclass so long as they are level 20. They may furthermore be of any race that can be played as a character, including those in the Monster Manual, but if the race has Level Adjustment, those levels must be subtracted from the character's level. For instance, something with level adjustment +3 would be level 17.
-No infinite loops or dodgy interpretations of rules.
-The battle takes place on an infinite plane with no escape, no terrain, and no cover.
-The contestants begin at 60 feet apart, and cannot have any spells pre-cast before the battle starts.
-The character may bring a certain amount of magic items. The formula for the GP value of said magic items can be found in the Dungeon Masters guide, in the section on pregenerated NPC's. Simply take all the magic items the pregenerated NPC of 20th level
-Neither contestant may summon anything. This is not to invalidate summoner builds that are popular amongst Clerics and Wizards, but simply because a 20th level Cleric that Gates in an avatar of their God is only demonstrating the power of their God. This also means that Demogorgon cannot summon any Demons.
I cannot give Demogorgon's stats, as I believe that would violate copyright law, but I will give a broad picture - he has high hit points, extremely high AC, and is deadly in melee. He has a number of spell like abilities which relate to mind control, which have extremely high DC's. He also has automatic gaze attacks which have extremely high DC's, and are oriented around mind control. His melee attacks have effects which cause ability damage and energy drain. Lastly, his most powerful ability is that his two heads allow him to act twice a round, meaning two movement actions and two standard actions. This essentially means that he is two people at once, and allows unparalleled tactical versatility.
I await your overpowered builds and min-max characters with a mixture of curiosity and dread.
We often test out simulation characters, to play-test high various builds at low and high levels alike, and often, we pit the characters against each other, as well as against suitably powerful monsters. The best 20th level characters would be pitted against Demon Lords, using the stats presented in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss.
It arose that the one Demon Lord that could not be beaten was Demogorgon, Prince of Demons, who was, of course, the most powerful one in the book. Not without precedent, as the version presented is CR 23, and there is no way a character of 20th level should be able to beat him. However, by combing various rule-books, and experimenting with min-max builds, one can create extremely overpowered characters capable of defeating monsters far more powerful then level alone would indicate.
Despite this, no one in my group could create a character capable of defeating Demogorgon. All characters created, from Paladin, to Wizard, to Cleric, were defeated within a few rounds, and only the Monk character we designed actually survived to "escape". I will add that my group contains a couple of serious powergamers, who have been playing for many years, yet admitted that it was close-to-impossible to win the challenge.
I now present the challenge to anyone who wishes to try. I am certain that there is a character build out there that can succeed, so I am not so much interested in vindicating Demogorgon's superiority, but rather discovering the build in question. The "rules" of the challenge are as follows:
-The character may be of any class, prestige class, or multiclass so long as they are level 20. They may furthermore be of any race that can be played as a character, including those in the Monster Manual, but if the race has Level Adjustment, those levels must be subtracted from the character's level. For instance, something with level adjustment +3 would be level 17.
-No infinite loops or dodgy interpretations of rules.
-The battle takes place on an infinite plane with no escape, no terrain, and no cover.
-The contestants begin at 60 feet apart, and cannot have any spells pre-cast before the battle starts.
-The character may bring a certain amount of magic items. The formula for the GP value of said magic items can be found in the Dungeon Masters guide, in the section on pregenerated NPC's. Simply take all the magic items the pregenerated NPC of 20th level
-Neither contestant may summon anything. This is not to invalidate summoner builds that are popular amongst Clerics and Wizards, but simply because a 20th level Cleric that Gates in an avatar of their God is only demonstrating the power of their God. This also means that Demogorgon cannot summon any Demons.
I cannot give Demogorgon's stats, as I believe that would violate copyright law, but I will give a broad picture - he has high hit points, extremely high AC, and is deadly in melee. He has a number of spell like abilities which relate to mind control, which have extremely high DC's. He also has automatic gaze attacks which have extremely high DC's, and are oriented around mind control. His melee attacks have effects which cause ability damage and energy drain. Lastly, his most powerful ability is that his two heads allow him to act twice a round, meaning two movement actions and two standard actions. This essentially means that he is two people at once, and allows unparalleled tactical versatility.
I await your overpowered builds and min-max characters with a mixture of curiosity and dread.
