Converting Psionic Creatures

[Cleon]

I previously suggested Con 21, though that's negotiable. Your suggested Str 19 is ok. But I still don't like the Uncanny Constitution ability.

Oh heck, this is taking too long. Let's just give it regularly derived hit points and I'll do a Cleon Special™ for the "superior" version.

I'd rather give 'em Con 18 or 19 for a +4 Con bonus as a homage to the original's +16 hit points (since that works out to a +32 hp bonus with their 8 HD).

So how about:

Abilities: Str 19, Dex 16, Con 19, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 15

Bite damage: 1d10+6.

 

[freyar]

That's fine, though is there a reason you want to reduce the bite damage from 2d8? Are you just trying to keep the max damage at 16 hp?

Keep the same Dex poison as the 3e CC version?

How about we boost the telepathy range to a round 100 yards?

 

[Cleon]

That's fine, though is there a reason you want to reduce the bite damage from 2d8? Are you just trying to keep the max damage at 16 hp?

Well I had two motives - (a) I wanted to keep the average damage more or less the same despite the higher Strength and (b) 2d8 seemed an excessively high base damage dice for a Medium sized creature.

Keep the same Dex poison as the 3e CC version?

I hadn't got that far yet.

The original "yields a -3 penalty to armor class, saving throws, and to-hit rolls) that lasts for 3-12 turns" which suggests the poison causes the sickened effect.

Maybe combine sickened and Dex damage?

Initial damage sickened for 1d10 minutes, secondary damage 1d6 Dex and sickened for 1d2 hours?

How about we boost the telepathy range to a round 100 yards?

Hmm, the original text says "they can communicate with others of their kind telepathically over distances of up to 24” at no cost to psionic strength", suggesting we shouls limit the telepathy to other Cessirids, but then it goes on to say "they are willing at times to negotiate with other intelligent creatures" which implies they might be able to talk to other beings. I suppose the non-cessirids could be using magic or psionics to talk to them.

300 feet is OK with me if it's OK with you.

Do you want to keep it working with all illilthid-kin, on the assumption that "others of their kind" doesn't only mean Cessirids?

Telepathy (Su): Cessirids can communicate telepathically with any illithid-kin within 300 feet.

 

[freyar]

OK, I'll go with the 1d10 base damage.

Yeah, I was just trying to move the conversation along. Sickened plus 1d6 Dex is a bit stronger than the original damage on average, but I think I could go for that poison.Poison (Ex): Contact, Fortitude save (DC 16); initial damage sickened for 1d10 minutes; secondary damage 1d6 Dex and sickened for 1d2 hours.

I'd at least include all illithid-kin if not all creatures. You know, it doesn't say they can't talk. How about we use the telepathy you suggest and let them speak Undercommon?

 

[Cleon]

OK, I'll go with the 1d10 base damage.

Yeah, I was just trying to move the conversation along. Sickened plus 1d6 Dex is a bit stronger than the original damage on average, but I think I could go for that poison.Poison (Ex): Contact, Fortitude save (DC 16); initial damage sickened for 1d10 minutes; secondary damage 1d6 Dex and sickened for 1d2 hours.

Fine by me. Although the poison DC will be 18 due to the increased Con.

Updating Cessirid Update Working Draft.

I'd at least include all illithid-kin if not all creatures. You know, it doesn't say they can't talk. How about we use the telepathy you suggest and let them speak Undercommon?

Let's look at the Illithidae in Lords of Madness for comparison.

Embrac
Int 4, no languages.

Kigrid
Int 7, they "seem to understand most spoken languages (perhaps this is a latent psionic ability)" and speak Undercommon.

Saltor
Int 9, speak Undercommon in "barking tone".

Hmm, both of the Illithidae with humanoid-level sentience speak Undercommon, so it makes sense if the Cessirid does too.

How about.

Cessirids can communicate telepathically with any illithid-kin (illithids and illithidae). Their telepathy can not "speak" to non-illithids, but it does allow them to understand the languages of any intelligent creature. Cessirids can speak Undercommon in a growling, yapping voice.

Telepathy (Su): Cessirids can communicate telepathically with any illithid-kin within 300 feet.

 

[freyar]

I'll go with that for the language and telepathy. Any more special abilities?

 

[Cleon]

I'll go with that for the language and telepathy. Any more special abilities?

We're not missing anything from the original monster as far as I can see, although I would like to add a few more tweaks.

Firstly, I think we should increase the CL/ML of the SLA/Psi powers from 6th to 8th, since (a) it matches their HD and (b) it's the minimum CL for a sorcerer to use phantasmal killer.

Come to think of it, didn't I suggest that before? I certainly remember intending to.

Secondly, their poison is "Contact" but is delivered by a melee bite, which would normally be an "Injury" poison.

Presumably that's a reference to the original flavour saying "tentacles around the mouth cause a stinging and burning sensation upon contact with flesh (save vs. poison for each bite that hits; failure yields a -3 penalty to armor class, saving throws, and to-hit rolls) that lasts for 3-12 turns."

However, the bit before the bracket that I've highlighted in blue implies they don't need to bite or even draw blood to poison an opponent.

Shall we modify the SA so they can poison an opponent by maintaining a grapple or making a touch attack?

Heck, how about we let them use their feeding tentacles to seize & poison foes in combat:

Attack/Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) or tentacles +10 melee touch (grapple plus poison)

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a cessirid must hit with its tentacles attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and affects its opponent with its poison.

Poison (Ex): Contact or injury, Fortitude save (DC 18); initial damage sickened for 1d10 minutes; secondary damage 1d6 Dex and sickened for 1d2 hours.

A cessirid's tentacles constantly ooze poison, which trickles back into the illithidae's mouth. Any creature hit by a cessirid's bite must save against this poison. An opponent must also must save against this poison every time a cessirid makes an opposed grapple check against them. The cessirid does not need to win the grapple check, since mere contact is enough to poison its foe.

 

[freyar]

I will agree to CL 8.

I like the tentacle touch attack with the poison. But perhaps it should be a secondary attack. Imp Grab off a touch attack is fairly nasty.

 

[Cleon]

I will agree to CL 8.

I like the tentacle touch attack with the poison. But perhaps it should be a secondary attack. Imp Grab off a touch attack is fairly nasty.

I'm suggesting a "bite or tentacles" full attack, not a "bite and tentacles", so surely making it secondary wouldn't make any difference?

Also, a standard grapple uses a touch attack to initialize it, so making an improved grab do the same doesn't seem that big a leap up.

 

[freyar]

Making the tentacles secondary takes a -5 penalty to the attack bonus (or -2 if we give them Multiattack) even when made as the only attack. It would be less effective.

A standard grapple attempt provokes an AoO. That's a pretty important difference.