City State of the Invincible Overlord -- Is it really that good?

[TheAuldGrump]

I own the Mayfair Games boxset. It is very good, but it does fail where KoS mentions. I suppose you could broaden the size of the city and include "non-encounter" areas quite easily. I don't know about the JG hardbound book of the same name, but I do plan on purchasing it when it goes down in price.

Does anyone know if there are significant differences between these two versions and the original?

The Mayfair Games version was nothing like the original, nor like the newest version. The new version blows the Mayfair version out of the water, then burns the wreckage. Even the Mayfair map has nothing to do with either the original or the new version. The old Judges Guild City State was a dark, grim, evil place, and so is the new one.

The Judges Guild set had a separate map for the GM and for the players, and if you can find an old version of the player's map I would recommend using it with the new City State as well.

The Auld Grump

 

[MonsterMash]

Well, as I wrote one of the ENWorld reviews that pretty much sums up my feeling about the product. Otherwise yes I do really like it even if the product could be made to hang together a bit better. About the only places that any 'technology' creeps in is the Limb of Emig XXV in the Cryptic Citadel.

I own the Judges Guild revised edition from the late 70s and the new Necromancer Games/JG version and the only way I'll part from them is if you prise them from my cold dead hands!

 

[trancejeremy]

Aren't most fantasy settings male-dominated? The exception sometimes being the elven kingdoms, which can often have queens leading them.

I dunno. I think PC-ness has sort of crept into fantasy, so nowadays most are not. Most are pretty gender neutral.

I

 

[The Shaman]

I think PC-ness has sort of crept into fantasy, so nowadays most are not. Most are pretty gender neutral.

Damn you, Mercedes Lackey! Damn you to hell!



City-State is all-that and a bag of chips.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

Does anyone out there own this baby? Is it really this good?

I own it. I like it. I like it a fair amount. But... I wouldn't give it a 5/5. As Keeper of Secrets points out, Chapter Eight, the 'meat' of the book that describes the locations around town, is really just a long rambling jumble of paragraphs. Here's a vintner, here's a monger, here's a mouser. Some locations are kind of cool, and the more 'adult'-themed stuff is a refreshing change of pace that gives the city a seedy air. But many locations just seem dull and uninteresting - they really don't have depth, plot hooks, or, in my opinion (this is how it seems to me, ymmv), much thought attached to them. The worst thing is the cliche feel that many places have. I really love the Players' Guide to the Wilderlands, but this didn't ignite my imagination the same way. Comparing it to the Eberron books, I would rate it below the Eberron setting but above Sharn: City of Towers.

The thing I liked most about CSIO was the first 40 pages with all the tables for encounters, crime, social standing, etc. And I really, really like the detailed locations. How many times have I needed a floorplan and roster for a city jail or the thieves guildhouse? CSIO has them and more, and it does them well. Also I liked the write-ups of the 3 poweful NPCs in Appendix I; I just wish there had been many more detailed NPCs like this. And, oh yeah, gotta love the Sewer God unique monster.

 

[D+1]

It almost sounds too good to be true.

Almost, but not quite.

(a.) Definite 'old school' feel maintained. Inspiration from Lankhmar, Hyboria, etc. (None of the PC and/or 'techno-magic' nonsense found in other current 'hip' city books.)

The original was written almost THIRTY years ago. Aside from expanding descriptions and using d20 rules, not much has changed about it. It is the DEFINITION of "Old School."

(b.) Minimal 'crunch' and statblocks. Since I use C&C anyway, this is a definite plus in my books.

Necromancer Games website has NPC statblocks as a download. They were cut from the book for sheer lack of space.
[qoute](c.) A huge city that is Lawful Evil! That is so cool. Good cities are boring.[/quote]There are what, THREE versions of Waterdeep alone? It's not so much that they are boring - but they've been DONE.

(d.) Tonnes of adventure hooks and colourful NPCs.

Anyone who says different is truly not paying attention.

(e.) Modularlity -- unlike so many other city books out there, this one can be easily tweaked to fit into most campaign worlds (including homebrews!).

Which, of course, is rather the entire philosophy behind Judges Guild material then and now. They provide what they provide, but the individual DM makes it his own

People occasionally remark that it seems random. In a sense it IS, but why wouldn't it be? ANY city is when you first encounter it. But it's not the job of the book (to borrow an example) to tell you that while the ogre running one shop hates dwarves that he will have any particular issue with the dwarf who runs the shop next door. As DM you will decide if it's really an ogre running the first shop, if there even IS a shop next door or if you want it to be a residence, or if the two shopkeeps run into each other what happens next, if anything. If the DM wants to build that up he can, if he doesn't want to then it's not "written into the setting" in the same way as simply mentioning "the ogre running this shop hates dwarves."

A city is only going to acquire it's character when taken as a whole, and from one DM to the next, one campaign to the next the city can aquire a much different feel. One can make it a seedy, dark place of suffering, murders and degradation, or it can be a lively, fast-paced, anything-can-happen, city-that-never-sleeps kind of place. Or BOTH depending simply on location and time of day. But again, that's the DM's territory.

The city itself in general, while far more round-heeled and politically incorrect than anything presented in the last 20 years (since it does contain slavery, encounters for prostitution, inclusion of ogres, trolls, goblins, etc. in the citizenry, a dodgy justice system enforced by incompetents, and ruled by a LE fighter) is still capable of easily being what the DM wants to make of it.

 

[Nisarg]

I think I'll stick to Port Blacksand, thank you very much.

Nisarg

 

[Akrasia]

I think I'll stick to Port Blacksand, thank you very much.

Nisarg

Ummmm ... okay.

(wtf?)

 

[Akrasia]

... The city itself in general, while far more round-heeled and politically incorrect than anything presented in the last 20 years (since it does contain slavery, encounters for prostitution, inclusion of ogres, trolls, goblins, etc. in the citizenry, a dodgy justice system enforced by incompetents, and ruled by a LE fighter) is still capable of easily being what the DM wants to make of it.

Since I want a politically incorrect LE city with slavery and prostitution, this sounds right up my alley!

 

[Nisarg]

Ummmm ... okay.

(wtf?)

Port Blacksand, the "city of thieves", a sourcebook for the "Advanced Fighting Fantasy" book series. The game was based on the "fighting fantasy" choose-your-own-adventure style novels, and was pretty basic, but the Blacksand sourcebook was the hidden jewel of the series, a very detailed city setting with pirates, slavers, orcs-as-citizens, etc etc; in other words very similar vibe to what City-State has.

The difference is that I read city-state (not the current one, but the old box set) and it felt unbelievably dry and dull to me, whereas Blacksand hit me in all the right places.

Well, we'll see if the upcoming Thieves World book doesn't top them all.

Nisarg