Champions RPG

[BkMamba]

Back in the day . . . some twenty odd (25?) years ago I used to play Champions 1st edition with my gaming group. I've never been near it (or any other superhero RPG) since and believe it is now part of the Hero system (?).

So my question is what gaming books would I need to play a Champions campaign using the current ruleset?

And as a bonus question - how much does the rule system today differ from 1st edition?

Many thanks!

You can pick up a used copy of Champions 4E on eBay for less then $10.00. You will be happier in the long run. There are also literally dozens of 4E Champions sourcebooks you can pick up on eBay for only a few dollars each. For less then the priced of buying HERO System Fifth Edition, Revised alone you can get a Champions collection.

HERO System Fifth Edition, Revised is literally just a toolkit game of rules now. There is a small section in the book which discusses how to use the game for various genres but the system is basically devoid of genre flavor. That is why I suggest purchasing 4E if you are wanting to use the system for superhero gaming: 4E has the superhero genre material already in it.

 

[teitan]

Yeah go with fourth edition. FrED is an intimidating beast to read and players look at it in FEAR. 4th is an easier to read and use book and MUCH cheaper. You can even use the fifth edition material with it, just keep in mind the differences in point costs on some powers and the totals listed in the books being inconsistent with your 4e book.

 

[Erekose]

Thanks for all of the replies - too many to comment on individually biut I will bear in mind your views.

With regards to Mutants & Masterminds, as a d20-based system are there any broad brush comments you can make to give me a flavour of how it works given that I've a good knowledge of D&D?

 

[buzz]

So my question is what gaming books would I need to play a Champions campaign using the current ruleset?

The bare minimum you would need is HERO System Sidekick. It presents a pared-down (yet very complete) version of the current rules in 128 pages for $15 (less if you buy the PDF). I would definitely use that and see if the system is up your alley, rather than dive in with the main rulebook.

If you feel comfortable with the system, that book is really all you need. However, if you want some additional support for running a supers game, I'd suggest (in order of importance):

Hero Designer v3
Hands-down, the best chargen software I've ever used. I find it an indispensable tool for both playing and GM'ing HERO. Makes life really easy.

UNTIL Superpowers Database
This is a big, fat, book of all kinds of pre-built superpowers. It's both a great aid and a learning tool.

Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks
Arcane Adversaries
Evil Unleashed
Everyman
These are the current NPC books. Statting up NPCs can be time-consuming, so these books save you a lot of time.

Champions
This is the guide to the supers genre for HERO (yes, it has the same name as the original Champions RPG you played). If you already have a good grasp of the genre, it's not all that necessary, but it's a good book nonetheless.

The next on my list after these would be the various sourcebooks that flesh out the Champions Universe, i.e., Hero Games' supers setting. There are some excellent books here (DEMON is quite good), but you don't need them if you want to create your own setting. Likewise, there are also some scenario books if you don't want to roll your own.

As for previous editions, I guess that all depends on your tolerance for Ebay and polling the various opinions of HERO fandom. E.g., I'd probably suggest 3rd edition if all you care about is supers. But that path is fraught with peril. Personally, I'd stick with the current, in-print products and make use of the excellent forums at Hero Games for additional advice. There's a good community there.

As for M&M2e, I think it's also a great choice for supers, especially if your group is already comfortable with d20.

With regards to Mutants & Masterminds, as a d20-based system are there any broad brush comments you can make to give me a flavour of how it works given that I've a good knowledge of D&D?

M&M is essentially a d20 implementation of HERO. You build characters with a pool of points that are used to purchase ability scores, skills, feats, and powers. You build powers out of building blocks modified to achieve the effect you want. You can get more points by taking on weaknesses.

There are no classes. Instead of hit points, there is a Damage save used when a PC is hit by an attack. The main rulebook also assumes that minis will not be used, ergo there are no AoO. A big feature are Hero Points, which are basically "fudge" points that let players nab a little narrative control from the GM.

Green Ronin (the publisher) also recently came out with a M&M Pocket Guide, which is basically a stripped-down version of the rules for $20 (about half the cost of the main rulebook).

The advantage to M&M over HERO is that it's a bit simpler to run, but about as robust, and the sourcebooks are of high quality, with awesome art. HERO, otoh, is good if you prefer more detail, and it has a metric frakton of sourcebooks available for all kinds of genres.

 

[BkMamba]

With regards to Mutants & Masterminds, as a d20-based system are there any broad brush comments you can make to give me a flavour of how it works given that I've a good knowledge of D&D?

I played Champions for over twenty years but the Fifth Edition of the game turned me away from the system. The system is just too bogged down in rules, IMO. I still enjoy the system for gritty Fantasy or Science Fiction but my superhero system of choice is Mutants & Masterminds 2E.

I believe Buzz covered most of the basics of M&M fairly well. It is an OGL game but has none of the "standard" d20 system conventions. The game is fast paced and flexible with a Hero Point system which allows for spontaneous adlibbing of Powers and abilities. This allows you to perform some of the seldom-used Power Stunts you see in the comics without needing to buy every individual Power/Ability.

You can download a PDF of the entire first chapter of the book from here along with some examples and adventures. I would also recommend you check out the M&M section of Green Ronin's website to see what is available and what is coming out soon.

The M&M forum is being moved to a new server but when it comes back online you can see some Marvel and DC character write-ups using the system here. That will give you an idea of the flexibility of the system.

 

[Erekose]

Really comprehensive answers - thanks buzz and BkMamba!!!

I'll check out the M&M websites suggested (an download the sample chapter).

Many thanks!

 

[Karl Green]

And as a bonus question - how much does the rule system today differ from 1st edition?

Many thanks!

I have both 1st and 5th sitting at home on my book shelves (along with 2nd, 3rd and 4th).

1st is 88 pages long and that includes 9 pages on running a Supers game and a 3 or 4 page advanture (the one with a brick robbing a bank).

5th ed is over 400 pages long and it does not have the advanture or much fluff at all. 5th Revised Ed is even bigger and can stop small arms fire

For supers these days I like lighter games and play Mutants and Masterminds 2nd ed and just got Wild Talents and I am curious about trying it out.

 

[Quartz]

Hero was my favoured system 20 years ago. I've still got the 5e rulebooks. You can model anything with the system, but it's just too complex.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I'll be the voice of dissent and say that after running a M&M game for 6 months or so that I really prefer HERO SYSTEM for my superhero games.

I discovered that I really dont like the Hero point or GM Fiat mechanics at all. The Hero point mechanic I find places too much power in the hands of the players and thier PC's and the GM Fiat just feels like flat out cheating. I know people will then counter with the fact that it's a great way to emulate the genre but they quickly forget that the actual genre is manipulated by writers and this is an actual GAME. I don't have access to my HERO books at this moment but I'm also fairly certain there is a mechanic for emulating power stunts in HERO.

The only problem now is finding a group to run HERO for because most people want to run or play M&M. Which sucks.

M&M is an elegant retooling of the D20 system to accomodate supers gaming but really, REALLY not my particular cup of tea. And this is not some monday morning quarterbacking I'm doing, this someone who ran a game with 3-5 players for about six months.

If I can't find a HERO group I'll probably try running it again...

 

[Fedifensor]

Hero was my favoured system 20 years ago. I've still got the 5e rulebooks. You can model anything with the system, but it's just too complex.

It's more complex than D&D, but simply saying it's "too complex" is a bit unfair.

If you are playing HERO, and you either get help with character creation (HeroDesigner is an EXCELLENT tool) or have the GM create your character, it isn't any more complex than D&D. The big advantage is that you have more options in combat - the complexity is kept down by listing those maneuvers (Dodge, Grab, etc) on the character sheet, and the lack of attacks of opportunity (the most complex thing D&D has). It's also a system that can represent nearly any ability, which means a lot less compromising when you come up with a cool concept.

Now, if you want to gamemaster HERO, creating NPCs and villains can be a daunting task. That's why all the different genres of HERO (especially Champions) have entire books of NPC writeups. That's the main reason HERO isn't played more - sure, a gourmet meal is very satisfying, but a lot of people would prefer to save a lot of time and pop a meal in the microwave.