Bard/rogue/arcane trickster - viable?

[Thurbane]

Just a quick question for discussion - would would a bard/rogue make a viable arcane trickster? He wouldn't have the spellcasting power of a wizard or sorcerer, but he would have a lot more skills...

 

[Pyrex]

I don't see why not. Seems like pretty reasonable synergy to me.

 

[szilard]

I wish there was a way to get into Arcane Trickster with Beguiler, personally.

-Stuart

 

[moritheil]

I wish there was a way to get into Arcane Trickster with Beguiler, personally.

-Stuart

Beguiler/Assassin and Beguiler/Spellthief aren't cutting it for you?

 

[szilard]

Beguiler/Assassin and Beguiler/Spellthief aren't cutting it for you?

Neither Beguilers nor Assassins get Mage Hand. I don't think the Spellthief does, either... (do they get any 0-level spells?)

-Stuart

 

[nittanytbone]

Just a quick question for discussion - would would a bard/rogue make a viable arcane trickster? He wouldn't have the spellcasting power of a wizard or rogue, but he would have a lot more skills...

Arcane Trickster is underpowered to start with. Bard is underpowered to start with.

A rogue/arcane trickster would, I fear, be quite overshadowed by many other builds.

AT does nothing to continue advancing bardic music abilities. You'd have to invest 7 levels into bard (8 if you lack 16 CHA) -- rather than the usual 5 wizard levels, which slows entry into the class. It also makes MAD an issue. CHA is often a dump stat for many casters, but now you need to prioritize it.

 

[moritheil]

Neither Beguilers nor Assassins get Mage Hand. I don't think the Spellthief does, either... (do they get any 0-level spells?)

-Stuart

IIRC you just have to spend an Extra Learning slot on it and take it as a 1st-level spell.

 

[boolean]

IIRC you just have to spend an Extra Learning slot on it and take it as a 1st-level spell.

Extra Spell only allows you to add a spell that's already on your class list (clarified in the FAQ).

For a Beguiler there's two option, one house rule and the other RAW. The house rule would be to allow a Beguiler to use the Eclectic Learning alternate class feature from PHB2 that warmages get. (Basically allowing them to use an Advanced Learning pick to learn Mage Hand as a 1st level spell.)

RAW, Complete Arcane says that a creature with a spell-like ability that duplicates a particular spell satisfies any prerequisite that requires that spell (p.72, top right column). The Spell Hand feat from that same book allows you cast Mage Hand (and a couple of other spells) once per day, so that qualifies for Arcane Trickster.

 

[smootrk]

For Beguiler, Spellthief, or even Assassin, it simple enough for a DM to include Mage Hand in their respective spell lists as a houserule. The spell certainly seems very aprapo in any of those classes anyhow. Even the Bard could realistically use the spell in their repertoire, and one (as DM) could simply remove another spell from their spell list if the DM is a balance/rules fiend.

 

[Thurbane]

Do any domains have mage hand on the list? Then Domain Wizard (?) feat would solve it. How about casting it from a magic item? Or the feat that allows it as a SLA from CArc?