Awaken, a strange spell

[Aloïsius]

Who else think that it's somewhat silly that awakened trees are considered as constructs and not as plant creatures ? As constructs, they are immune to disease, and to every plant-control spells. They don't have a constitution ability.It seems wrong IMHO. That, and the fact that some of their ability score are irrealistic : a giant tree, 100 ft high and weighting hundred of tons, will have a strength score lower than those of a dire bear.

Do you think it will unbalance the spell if they are treated as plant (D8 HD, good fortitude save), and get STR (and CON) scores according to their size (10 for a medium tree, 18 for large one, 26 for a huge one...) ?

 

[taliesin15]

Who else think that it's somewhat silly that awakened trees are considered as constructs and not as plant creatures ? As constructs, they are immune to disease, and to every plant-control spells. They don't have a constitution ability.It seems wrong IMHO. That, and the fact that some of their ability score are irrealistic : a giant tree, 100 ft high and weighting hundred of tons, will have a strength score lower than those of a dire bear.

Do you think it will unbalance the spell if they are treated as plant (D8 HD, good fortitude save), and get STR (and CON) scores according to their size (10 for a medium tree, 18 for large one, 26 for a huge one...) ?

I never noticed this before, and your arguments make quite a bit of sense. I've touched redwoods that were 1500 years old, and there's no way even a particularly large bear (even say a double sized polar bear, if you could find one in the Pac NWest) would be as strong and healthy...and the "construct" thing seems specious to say the least. The other thing is the notion of awakening trees seems a little bit redundant, if one is tuned in.

 

[Presto2112]

I've always had a bit of a problem with the spell anyway.

"How do I reward this beautiful panther who has just save me from the pack of hyenas? Oh, I know, I'll tie it to a tree to make sure it doesn't go anywhere, make strange noises and motions that may creep it out for twenty four hours, and give it a human brain!!! Yeah, that'll work!"

 

[Aloïsius]

I've always had a bit of a problem with the spell anyway.

"How do I reward this beautiful panther who has just save me from the pack of hyenas? Oh, I know, I'll tie it to a tree to make sure it doesn't go anywhere, make strange noises and motions that may creep it out for twenty four hours, and give it a human brain!!! Yeah, that'll work!"

This is why I think the spell should be used mostly for trees.

I never noticed this before, and your arguments make quite a bit of sense. I've touched redwoods that were 1500 years old, and there's no way even a particularly large bear (even say a double sized polar bear, if you could find one in the Pac NWest) would be as strong and healthy...and the "construct" thing seems specious to say the least. The other thing is the notion of awakening trees seems a little bit redundant, if one is tuned in.

However, I can understand that creating friends with 32HD and 49 STR may be too powerfull for a 5th level spell. Maybe the XP cost could be HD dependant ?

 

[pawsplay]

I found the casting time so bizarre that in the campaign I'm running, when I did use it, I had the NPC druid administer a wondrous item (food) to accomplish this rather than coming up with a workaround on the spot.

I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be a full round spell, but as someone apparently thought of some, I'm probably inclined to give it a casting time of ten minutes.

And awakened plants should definitely be, you know, plants.

 

[DarkKestral]

Worse, with a Maximized, Empowered Awaken (it's potentially possible, due to a poor wording) and appropriate pointbuy, you can get trees that have mobility, 18s in Str and Dex + their racial adjustments for being constructs, and 33 + racial adjustment Int, Wis, and Cha scores. This only costs 250 xp and a 8th level spell slot. Furthermore, the tree is immune to crits, and has extra hp based on their CHA and construct bonus HPs.

 

[pawsplay]

Argh, yes, I am familiar with that intepretation, although I don't agree with it. The effect of the spell is to awaken one animal or plant, and then it gives the characteristics for such creatures. There really should be an "awakened" template in the MM, don't you think?

 

[moritheil]

I wonder what LA that template will have.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Who else think that it's somewhat silly that awakened trees are considered as constructs and not as plant creatures?

Hm... Hadn't thought about that at all. But it makes me think that the spell could easily be renamed as "Spontaneously Generate Monstrous NPC" and suddenly it would be obvious that the current "rules" for awakening things are just downright inadequate. Very fun, cool concept, but more complicated in the execution than it might seem. Sort of like Polymorph in that regard, eh?

My advice? Deep-six the "rules" and go with what makes SENSE. Trees for example. If you Awaken a tree doesn't it make vastly more sense that instead of a plant with a few templates tacked onto it that you should get... an ENT? I mean, why go mucking about with templates at all at that point [IGNORE what the spell description says] if there already exists in the MM a creature SO CLOSE to what you've just made? Why try to recreate the wheel - and do so with such cumbersome tools to boot? Why not just call it what we all are thinking it IS anyway? 'Tseems to me you'd do better to just take a Treant and adjust for size as needed rather than spend one more moment trying to badly mimick one with a plant/construct.

I'll take the arbitrary rulings of DM with common sense over "The Rules" any day. Heck, that's practically my battle-cry these days. DO NOT let the rules get in your way. EVER. In fact, that's going into my .sig.

 

[DarkKestral]

I wonder what LA that template will have.

I've actually asked the Sage about that. It's apparently a more common question than I assumed, but, neither errata, CustServ, nor the Sage have answered that question.