Lucas Yew
Explorer
It should be common knowledge here that both "god stats" and "dump stats" exist, especially when you can manipulate character generation and growth.
As an example, in the case of D&D 3.X and beyond, the most common dump stat usually Strength and/or Charisma (plus Intelligence in 5E); and the other 4(3) are recommended to never ever cut below average, for any character of any class will earn something meaningful from them.
Another example, in GURPS 4E, the 4 major attributes are actually priced differently, yet I heard that the hardcore players still complain that the 2 ones with double CP price are still too cheap for their value.
My obsessiveness with order find this phenomenon troublesome, for my inner peace.
----
So, if I ever get to make a RPG with 6 major attributes, I decided that I'd like to use the following array, based on the 2 games above (using D&D abbreviations for clarity);
[ STR / DEX / INT ] (proactive 3)
[ CON / AGI / WIS ] (reactive 3)
First, STR/ST and CON/HT are self explanatory and their values are just about right; it could do a little more improvement if STR's damage bonus on cold weapons was an exclusive trait of this attribute, plus new class features for melee warriors who'd like to dump DEX below.
However, with DEX/DX being clearly OP in both games, a new AGI(-lity) stat is set to take the reactionary/defensive/quickness aspect of DEX/DX; in case of D&D, now your wizard won't get to enjoy hawkeye archery plus the AC and Initiative modifiers which they shouldn't have (though the relevant martial classes like monks and rangers should gain class features that makes them more manageable, for balance and cool factors).
Finally, of IQ, splitting it into INT and WIS was an obvious decision, but scrapping CHA away had its reasons too; when so many GMs have a tendency to force oral roleplaying during sessions and punish socially awkward players who want to muscle through social encounters with high CHA and Diplomacy ranks combined alone, plus some players (usually the newest generation) would like to portray their avatars as visually quite attractive without point-buy shenanigans (I know well enough that CHA is not a prescriptive stat for beauty, but it IS easy to make that mistake for newcomers), it is probably best that CHA (and whatever baggage it brings) is actually better off removed from character base attributes into optional bonuses like feats/advantages.
And a final bonus; a seventh, optional stat that governs self-activated supernatural powers, such as MAG for arcane spellcasting and/or PSI for psionics, should be required as a primary stat for such characters.
One of the biggest irritation factors of the well known Martial-Caster Disparity (a.k.a. Linear Fighters Quadratic Wizards, or Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit, etc.) in a class+level system like D&D is that the spellcasters gain too much for investing in a regular stat that is balanced otherwise for classes without such features.
So by moving and splitting bonus sources for stuff like mana/bonus slots, spell power/DC, etc. into multiple sources like a INT+MAG / WIS+PSI Two-Ability-Dependance (or more), even if the spellcasters (or equivalents) still get to overpower non-magic folks later on (which is quite likely, even with such a nerf, due to the nature of magic and similar systems as an "ADD-ON" to otherwise reality-based settings), they get to EARN it by sacrificing ordinary competence in mundane jobs.
----
As a bonus add-on; if I tinkered with W.O.I.N.'s 12 stat system (I definitely count its MAG/CHI/PSI as all viable in any setting; they'd look so cool together when competing/cooperating together), I'd still work on personal improvements starting with splitting its own Agility stat into two, and instead of killing Charisma remove Reputation for its relative nature (your Presidency of the Intergalactic Trade Federation whatever has no meaning before a remote, primitive jungle world's angry lizardfolk natives), which would make it look like this;
[ STR / END / DEX / AGI ] (physical 4)
[ CHA / WIL / LOG / INT ] (mental 4)
[ LUK / MAG / CHI / PSI ] (special 4)
----
And that was my rambling on alternative stat systems.
Thank you.
----
P.S. Should this thread be in the homebrew forum? I just wondered if I should move it there...
As an example, in the case of D&D 3.X and beyond, the most common dump stat usually Strength and/or Charisma (plus Intelligence in 5E); and the other 4(3) are recommended to never ever cut below average, for any character of any class will earn something meaningful from them.
Another example, in GURPS 4E, the 4 major attributes are actually priced differently, yet I heard that the hardcore players still complain that the 2 ones with double CP price are still too cheap for their value.
My obsessiveness with order find this phenomenon troublesome, for my inner peace.
----
So, if I ever get to make a RPG with 6 major attributes, I decided that I'd like to use the following array, based on the 2 games above (using D&D abbreviations for clarity);
[ STR / DEX / INT ] (proactive 3)
[ CON / AGI / WIS ] (reactive 3)
First, STR/ST and CON/HT are self explanatory and their values are just about right; it could do a little more improvement if STR's damage bonus on cold weapons was an exclusive trait of this attribute, plus new class features for melee warriors who'd like to dump DEX below.
However, with DEX/DX being clearly OP in both games, a new AGI(-lity) stat is set to take the reactionary/defensive/quickness aspect of DEX/DX; in case of D&D, now your wizard won't get to enjoy hawkeye archery plus the AC and Initiative modifiers which they shouldn't have (though the relevant martial classes like monks and rangers should gain class features that makes them more manageable, for balance and cool factors).
Finally, of IQ, splitting it into INT and WIS was an obvious decision, but scrapping CHA away had its reasons too; when so many GMs have a tendency to force oral roleplaying during sessions and punish socially awkward players who want to muscle through social encounters with high CHA and Diplomacy ranks combined alone, plus some players (usually the newest generation) would like to portray their avatars as visually quite attractive without point-buy shenanigans (I know well enough that CHA is not a prescriptive stat for beauty, but it IS easy to make that mistake for newcomers), it is probably best that CHA (and whatever baggage it brings) is actually better off removed from character base attributes into optional bonuses like feats/advantages.
And a final bonus; a seventh, optional stat that governs self-activated supernatural powers, such as MAG for arcane spellcasting and/or PSI for psionics, should be required as a primary stat for such characters.
One of the biggest irritation factors of the well known Martial-Caster Disparity (a.k.a. Linear Fighters Quadratic Wizards, or Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit, etc.) in a class+level system like D&D is that the spellcasters gain too much for investing in a regular stat that is balanced otherwise for classes without such features.
So by moving and splitting bonus sources for stuff like mana/bonus slots, spell power/DC, etc. into multiple sources like a INT+MAG / WIS+PSI Two-Ability-Dependance (or more), even if the spellcasters (or equivalents) still get to overpower non-magic folks later on (which is quite likely, even with such a nerf, due to the nature of magic and similar systems as an "ADD-ON" to otherwise reality-based settings), they get to EARN it by sacrificing ordinary competence in mundane jobs.
----
As a bonus add-on; if I tinkered with W.O.I.N.'s 12 stat system (I definitely count its MAG/CHI/PSI as all viable in any setting; they'd look so cool together when competing/cooperating together), I'd still work on personal improvements starting with splitting its own Agility stat into two, and instead of killing Charisma remove Reputation for its relative nature (your Presidency of the Intergalactic Trade Federation whatever has no meaning before a remote, primitive jungle world's angry lizardfolk natives), which would make it look like this;
[ STR / END / DEX / AGI ] (physical 4)
[ CHA / WIL / LOG / INT ] (mental 4)
[ LUK / MAG / CHI / PSI ] (special 4)
----
And that was my rambling on alternative stat systems.
Thank you.
----
P.S. Should this thread be in the homebrew forum? I just wondered if I should move it there...
