Ars Magic 5th edition

[Yair]

What are some of the best suppliments from editions past? Has the system changed so much that they are hard to use or easy? I have zero experience with any edition and while I've seen info on what rules have changed they had little meaning to me since I have no context.

Good question. In fact, it's in the FAQ. Personally, I liked The Mysteries and The Dragon and the Bear above the rest, though Kabbalah was good too (but very specific!).
I still don't have the 5th edition (it's on the ship!), but based on the character write-ups I have seen conversion should pose no problem. That said, some portions of The Mysteries may be in need of revision, I'm not sure, and the more rules-oriented suppluments (mainly Wizard's Grimoire Revised Edition) will obviously suffer the most. Converting some characters may be difficult, but converting most mechanics should be easy as the core mechanics are largely the same.

Just to give you an idea: The Dragon and the Bear is a regional-supplument (kind-of-like Seprent Kingdoms, or better yet Waterdeep and The North), it has about 192 pages, of which about 35 are devoted to mechanics (rough estimate). Kabbalah details jewish magic, and has 160 pages; it's harder to estimate but let's say mechanics don't enter until page 59, and over-all I think comprise about 50 pages at most, but it's scattered somewhat.

 

[Wombat]

Best supplements I have run across have been Lion of the North, Dragon & Bear, Wizard's Grimoire, and Blood & Sand. Kabbalah , The Mysteries, and Faeries rate pretty close after these. (On the low end of the scale, do not bother with The Mythic Seas, written by "Alan Smithee", and Pax Dei.)

Most of the material is pretty easy to convert since basic game mechanics have not changed wildly (closer to shift between AD&D 1 and AD&D 2 than that of AD&D 2 and 3e). The biggest shift I have seen so far has been the Virtues/Flaws being designated simply as Major and Minor, rather than having specific points costs associated with them. Due to this, at least for the moment, The Mysteries would probably not be a good buy, as much of the mechanics presented in that book are tied to point-costs for Virtues & Flaws, although all the flavour text still stands.

One thing I find intriguing with the new edition is the downplaying of the historicity of the setting. Between commentary and some "generally wizardly" illustrations, there seems to be a substantial backing away from the older material where characters were assumed to be part of fairly "accurate" medieval Europe -- this might be to "open" the game up to newer players, which is not a bad thing at all!

 

[mythusmage]

Or an acknowledgement that Ars Magica was never all that historical to begin with.

Starting with the first edition (Lion Rampant) there was a lot of talk about the historical mistakes scattered throughout. Hate to say this, but Tweet and company had only a smattering of knowledge about the medieval period, and not much more when it came to the 13th century. With second edition it became Europe as the people back then saw it. Which raised even more questions, since from available material it was fairly obvious the authors had really no more idea what people back then saw their world then the common man of today.

The move towards a fantasy Europe sounds like a good one to me. For sixth edition I'd like to see...

Expansion of True Faith to non-Christian religions.

Expansion of available schools to include non-Hermetic magical traditions. Enochian magic and Asian traditions for examples.

Advancing the time line forward to the 16th century would also help, since that's when the Hermetic tradition began to take form historically. Unless Ars Magica history is altered to allow for an earlier establishment of the Hermetic tradition.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Wombat]

Expansion of True Faith to non-Christian religions.

Expansion of available schools to include non-Hermetic magical traditions. Enochian magic and Asian traditions for examples.

Advancing the time line forward to the 16th century would also help, since that's when the Hermetic tradition began to take form historically. Unless Ars Magica history is altered to allow for an earlier establishment of the Hermetic tradition.

Well, as for True Faith, it is already (4th ed) available to multiple (monotheistic) faiths, but that mainly shows up in the supplements (Kabbalah, Blood & Sand); in 5th it now says "Those with True Faith may be Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, and, it seems, need not be wholly orthodox." (p 189), so I think that point is fairly quickly handled.

As for the "hermetic tradition", Enochian magic is pretty much a sub-set of traditional hermetic magic; conversely, Ars Magica, for as much as I like it as a system, does not really map hermetic magic (in the classical sense) very well. The system is much more fantasy-style, with big, showy effects, rather than learning the names of angels and demons and the like.

As for asian magical systems, I've never seen anyone try to do that for AM and most of the stuff I've seen done for other games is, once again, more fantasy-esque than accurate, focusing on "useful" (read -- helpful in the game) magics, rather than the core goals of the systems themselves.

I know some people who have set their games in the 15th and 16th centuries with very few problems; in certain ways I think it might even work more easily.

 

[Crothian]

On the flip side, what old supplements should be avoided?

 

[Wombat]

On the flip side, what old supplements should be avoided?

Mythic Seas. Avoid at all costs. When the author changes his name to "Alan Smithee", you are in trouble.

Pax Dei and Tribunal: Rome -- both of these were under White Wolf when they were trying to link AM with WoD and they went a bit demon-crazy; their companion pieces, Maleficium and Tribunal: Iberia, are not great, but at least have some redeeming features. The two Tribunal books are alright as long as they stick to the purely historical information, but the rest of the material is pretty much worthless.

I'm at sixes and sevens over Ultima Thule and Land of Fire & Ice. The former has to do with Scandinavia, the latter with Iceland. The factual material in Ultima Thule is good, but for about 300-400 years prior to "baseline" Ars Magica -- great if you want to run a Viking era game, but lousy for the 13th century. The rune magic system in it is very interesting, but I'm not sure how it would work under the new rules -- guess I'll have to crunch some numbers now As for Land of Fire & Ice, again the factual material on Iceland is good, but attached to it is a very odd adventure that feels more appropriate for Call of Cthuhlu than for Ars Magica (especially as you have Egyptians in Iceland). Again, if you are looking for historical material, it is pretty good, so I am torn.

That's about it. Some of the adventures might also be a bit "off" but, much like D&D, I haven't picked up or played too many of these, other than The Broken Covenant of Calebais, which was actually quite good (and will soon have a 5th ed version coming out).