Arcane Trickster (3e) any good?

[Fundin Strongarm]

I'm a Halfling 5/1 Wizard/Rogue and am considering taking my next 2 levels in Rogue so as to qualify to be an Arcane Trickster Prestige class (from the Tomb of Blood supplement). Does anyone think the Arcance Trickster is decent? The rest of the party is 2/4 Fighter/Cleric, 6 Fighter, 6 Ranger (though he died and is looking at Monk/Wizard for a new character). I'd say we're 70% "Kick in the Door" and 30% "Deep Storytelling" as far as style of campaign goes.

I like the spell progression (normal for a Wizard) as well as the sneak attack damage progression (normal for a Rogue). My main concern is that I won't be gaining any new spells while I take the Rogue levels and I'm not sure how much those levels will help out my character. Any thoughts?

 

[Thanee]

I've played two arcane tricksters in 3.0, one elven, one halfling, from 1st through 19th and 15th level respectively, and I think it's a really nifty class.

However, unless you house rule it, you will need 4 levels of rogue to qualify (or a level of loremaster or whatnot), because of the Decipher Script exclusiveness.

You will be lacking in direct spell power, which will be most obvious, if there is a full-scale arcane caster as well, but you have pretty much the same skills as a rogue (just not as diverse, you have to specialize a bit more) and tons of cool utility spells. You just have to accept, that your spells will not have the impact of a full spellcaster, but you get a lot of other abilities to compensate.

A huge bonus is, that in 3.0 your headband of intellect grants additional skill points, therefore you have almost as many skill points as a pure rogue, because you will, of course, max out Int as much as possible.

Also with spells like blink or improved invisibility, you can make those sneak attacks fairly easy, even with a ranged weapon, thus be a bit more safe, than a melee rogue. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot is all you need to make a decent archer.

And it's a very fun character, at least for me, as it combines the two things I like the most in D&D, cool skills and arcane magic.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Voadam]

The combination of sneak attacks with ray spells leads to massive amounts of damage. Improved invis and then go nuts at enemies within 30 feet. It is a very powerful class.

The AT in our party has been very effective.

Picking up the feat from Complete Divine that grants multiclass caster levels but no extra spells helps a lot.

 

[ARandomGod]

I'm a Halfling 5/1 Wizard/Rogue and am considering taking my next 2 levels in Rogue so as to qualify to be an Arcane Trickster Prestige class (from the Tomb of Blood supplement). Does anyone think the Arcance Trickster is decent? The rest of the party is 2/4 Fighter/Cleric, 6 Fighter, 6 Ranger (though he died and is looking at Monk/Wizard for a new character). I'd say we're 70% "Kick in the Door" and 30% "Deep Storytelling" as far as style of campaign goes.

I like the spell progression (normal for a Wizard) as well as the sneak attack damage progression (normal for a Rogue). My main concern is that I won't be gaining any new spells while I take the Rogue levels and I'm not sure how much those levels will help out my character. Any thoughts?

The AT is an awesome thief, and a less than optimal mage.
That being said, taking even ONE level of non mage is less than optimal!
Also, if you plan it out right from the beginning, you can take on level of rogue and one level of assassin, with the rest being only wizard or arcane trickster. Makes a BIG difference. Spell levels are everything to a mage.

But, while they're everything to a mage, they're just massive fluff for a thief. And AT makes a truely awesome thief.

 

[Felix]

I dig the flavor of Sorc/Rog better for Arcane Tricksters, but it is a neat class. Even though you need 5 levels of Wizard to enter the class, it is more of a rogueish class; you will not be the arcane firepower that a straight wiz or sorc is, and your skill selection will probably lead you to be the mechanic of the group.

As far as losing two levels of spell progression, well, that's too bad but if you've got a Monk/Wizard on the way you shouldn't worry too much about that... two half casters are about on par with one full caster as far as arcane effectiveness. And you'll get your spellcasting levels with the PrC.

Go for it dude!

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I've got a very high level Rogue/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster. He's a 19th level character at this point, and the Sneak Attack progression is really one of the best parts. It doesn't hurt too bad to be back on spells, you just have to find your niche in the group.

Long-Distance-Lock-Picker is fun.

 

[ARandomGod]

I dig the flavor of Sorc/Rog better for Arcane Tricksters, but it is a neat class. Even though you need 5 levels of Wizard to enter the class, it is more of a rogueish class; you will not be the arcane firepower that a straight wiz or sorc is, and your skill selection will probably lead you to be the mechanic of the group.

As far as losing two levels of spell progression, well, that's too bad but if you've got a Monk/Wizard on the way you shouldn't worry too much about that... two half casters are about on par with one full caster as far as arcane effectiveness. And you'll get your spellcasting levels with the PrC.

Go for it dude!

I like Wiz better, but I imagine that's flavor. After all, I think int is the most important ability for a rogue, therefore it's naturally a wizard. I know some people use this "char Is Ma" that I've heard about before. But they're idiots (j/k, to indicate charisma used as a dump stat).

But, I did feel it important to disagree with one point above. Two half casters are nowhere NEAR a full caster. A full caster would sneer in scorn at two half casters. ... Well, a wizard would. A Sorc would still feel scorn, but you'd comehow like him better anyhow. His would probably be a warm yet slightly condescending smile.

 

[Painfully]

With arcane trickster, I found that I was able to concentrate my skill points better as a rogue. No more opening lock points; I use knock spells. Less hiding rolls (still useful sometimes if you think they can see invis though); I use invisibility. No more UMD (still useful if you want to use magic items from other classes though). No need for climb skill with spider climb or fly. All of those options leave a lot of extra skill points for other things.

The variety of ways to sneak around, is alone worth taking arcane trickster IMO. A rogue that can stick to ceilings is pretty cool, although maybe a bit too ninja-like for some people.

Sneak attack all day long using greater invisibility. Disable devices at range if you are extra paranoid of traps. And the best part, load up on MM wands, or fireball scrolls for those moments when you cannot sneak attack the enemy.

Overall, the diversity is good. It will survive well in combat, and still be able to make a clean getaway using magic if necessary. I think they could outperform most rogue only characters, while giving up only a minimal amount of combat ability. An entire rogues guild of arcane tricksters could be really nasty.

 

[Michael Tree]

However, unless you house rule it, you will need 4 levels of rogue to qualify (or a level of loremaster or whatnot), because of the Decipher Script exclusiveness.

That's only in 3.0 though. There aren't any exclusive skills in 3.5.

As others have said, they're not great as firepower, though the Practiced Spellcaster feat from Complete Divine goes a long way to improving that. That feat is a must-have for ATs. It doesn't overpower them, just put them on par with other characters of the same level.

I've played one, and focused my skill points in the same way as Painfully. Sometimes spells are just better than skills, particularly movement skills and open lock. Search, Disable Device, and Move Silently remain essential though, and hide is good to have too.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I like Wiz better, but I imagine that's flavor. After all, I think int is the most important ability for a rogue, therefore it's naturally a wizard.

Funny, I've always found that with the huge amount of skill points Rogues get, they don't NEED high Int. Cha seems to always end up high in the Rogues in my games. They really are great face characters, and what would a Rogue be if he couldn't convince you he only borrowed the gold with complete intent to return it later?