Arcana Unearthed - Mage Blade question

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I notice that the Mage Blade gets a number of bonus feats which can be applied to the Complex Spell feat.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of using a Mage Blade's feats to gain Complex spells? Is it worth giving up combat-related feats to gain more powerful spell-casting ability?

I was thinking of giving up enough feats to gain Complex spells for levels 1-7. Are there spell levels where it isn't worth giving up a feat to gain Complex spells, thereby letting me apply a feat towards something more combat-related?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

That's kind of a personal preference type question. But presumably you chose a mageblade over a pure caster because you wanted to engage in melee combat. Sacrificing a lot of feats to improve casting at the expense of combat seems counter productive.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

That's kind of a personal preference type question. But presumably you chose a mageblade over a pure caster because you wanted to engage in melee combat. Sacrificing a lot of feats to improve casting at the expense of combat seems counter productive.

I understand that it's a preference issue, and that the mage blade is more of a combat-oriented class. I was looking for specific pros and cons of increasing the spellcasting power of this class choice.

 

[zalgar07]

That depends...

on what you're using your spellcasting abilities for. Mageblades, in general, use their spells for some 3 general purposes: buffing/healing yourself, making yourself useful with utility spells or supporting the whole party in general. For the first 2 options, complex spells aren't usually necessary unless there's some you really like (or get True Strike as an exotic spell and be really crazy) but if you're the most magically-gifted party member, complex spells galore are fine.

As for specific levels...
Level 3 thru 6 seem to be the best levels for a generic Mageblade to take Complex Spell. These have the largest number of spells directly useful before, during or after a battle. The most bang for your buck, as it were. Most spells of higher or lower levels tend to be more subtle or long-range affairs, and Mageblades are usually all about getting into the thick of things and then being magical badasses. At least IMHO.

Beyond that, it depends on your particular character build. Any specifics?

 

[drnuncheon]

First off, don't underestimate the mage blade's casting ability - they get just as much casting ability as a witch or a runethane, both of which most people consider 'primary casters', so don't think of their casting ability like you would a paladin's or a ranger's. You could have quite an effective caster by following the pattern you describe.

If your primary intent is to buff yourself and then be a melee machine, it probably isn't worth it. If you see yourself as an all-around 'war wizard', casting powerful spells in full armor, while still able to dish it out if the fight gets close to you, then going for complex spells is a great idea.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I understand that it's a preference issue, and that the mage blade is more of a combat-oriented class. I was looking for specific pros and cons of increasing the spellcasting power of this class choice.

Well, you have to ask yourself what combat feats you really need for the character, and what spells you really want for him.

To increase the power, you might consider the following type of spells:
1) Spells that improve armor class
2) Spells that improve (melee) damage
3) Spells that remove vulnerabilities or reduce weaknesses (in skills, as example) of your character (or the group)
4) Spells that improve maneuverability

As an example: If you make your Atheme a Spellstoring weapon, you might look at spells that work well with being stored with the weapon. (Like Hand of Battle, Attack from Within and so on).

Complex spells that I´d take a closer look at (especially for combat purposes):
1st level: Magic Armor, Magic Weapon (especially Heightened ...), Touch of Pain (Spellstoring).
2nd level:
Drain Away Speed, Scream (Spellstoring)
3rd level:
Attack from Within, Sorcerous Blast as your ranged attack method (and diminished for SPellstoring, though Hand of Battle might be better), Arror Reflection, Carnivours Plant Defense, Flight, Invisibility, Magic Circle, Steal Health (Spellstoring again)
4th level:
Attack from Within (Spellstoring), Chains of Vengeance, Dimensional Door, Protection from Energy
5th level:
Defensive Field, Gird the Warrior (great spell!), Restoration
6th level:
Vitrification (Spellstoring again), Bloodblade
7th level:
No "killer spells" here, I think. (Feedback Strike might be interesting, but it´s exotic)

The most useful level seems to be level 3, as there are a lot of standard utility spells found here. 5th level isn´t bad either, especially for the Gird the Warrior spell...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Well, you have to ask yourself what combat feats you really need for the character, and what spells you really want for him.

To increase the power, you might consider the following type of spells:
1) Spells that improve armor class
2) Spells that improve (melee) damage
3) Spells that remove vulnerabilities or reduce weaknesses (in skills, as example) of your character (or the group)
4) Spells that improve maneuverability

...on what you're using your spellcasting abilities for. Mageblades, in general, use their spells for some 3 general purposes: buffing/healing yourself, making yourself useful with utility spells or supporting the whole party in general. For the first 2 options, complex spells aren't usually necessary unless there's some you really like (or get True Strike as an exotic spell and be really crazy) but if you're the most magically-gifted party member, complex spells galore are fine.

I was actually thinking of taking Complex spells to round out the character, as in making more non-combat spells available to him.

As an example: If you make your Atheme a Spellstoring weapon, you might look at spells that work well with being stored with the weapon. (Like Hand of Battle, Attack from Within and so on).

Spellstoring.. hadn't considered that. Good idea!

Complex spells that I´d take a closer look at (especially for combat purposes):
1st level: Magic Armor, Magic Weapon (especially Heightened ...), Touch of Pain (Spellstoring).
2nd level:
Drain Away Speed, Scream (Spellstoring)
3rd level:
Attack from Within, Sorcerous Blast as your ranged attack method (and diminished for SPellstoring, though Hand of Battle might be better), Arror Reflection, Carnivours Plant Defense, Flight, Invisibility, Magic Circle, Steal Health (Spellstoring again)
4th level:
Attack from Within (Spellstoring), Chains of Vengeance, Dimensional Door, Protection from Energy
5th level:
Defensive Field, Gird the Warrior (great spell!), Restoration
6th level:
Vitrification (Spellstoring again), Bloodblade
7th level:
No "killer spells" here, I think. (Feedback Strike might be interesting, but it´s exotic)

The most useful level seems to be level 3, as there are a lot of standard utility spells found here. 5th level isn´t bad either, especially for the Gird the Warrior spell...

As for specific levels...
Level 3 thru 6 seem to be the best levels for a generic Mageblade to take Complex Spell. These have the largest number of spells directly useful before, during or after a battle. The most bang for your buck, as it were.

This is part of what I was looking for.. thanks.

If your primary intent is to buff yourself and then be a melee machine, it probably isn't worth it. If you see yourself as an all-around 'war wizard', casting powerful spells in full armor, while still able to dish it out if the fight gets close to you, then going for complex spells is a great idea.

I'm starting to think that taking Complex spells can make me more of a melee beast than taking combat-related feats. Having said that, I want to create a character who is primarily a wizard, with some combat skills as backup.

 

[scholz]

Case in point... last gaming session.
Low magic world (in fact only the 6th level Mage Blade has a magic weapon). Six players... Giant3/Warmain3, Giant1/Champion5, Unfettered1/Totem Warrior5, Mageblade6, Runethane 6.

They encounter a single shadow. It sucked down an average of 4 points of strength from each fighter type before the Mageblade killed it.

Next fight vs 7 Shadows.
Mageblade casts magic weapon (Complex 1st) on the weapons of the party.
Fight ends with some strength damage, but the party wins. In out game this proved itself quite useful.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Alright, I'm doing it:

Human Mageblade

Feats:

• level 1 (talent) --> Natural Swordsman
• level 1 (human bonus) --> Defensive Stance
• level 1 (ceremonial) --> Bonded Item
• level 3 --> Complex spell, level 1
• level 5 (bonus Mageblade) --> Weapon Focus
• level 6 --> Complex spell, level 2
• level 9 --> Weapon Specialization
• level 10 (bonus Mageblade) --> Complex spell, level 3
• level 12 --> Complex spell, level 4
• level 15 --> Complex spell, level 5
• level 15 (bonus Mageblade) --> Rapid Strike
• level 18 --> Complex spell, level 6
• level 20 (bonus Mageblade) --> Complex spell, level 7

 

[Michael Tree]

Taking 3rd level complex spells is definitely worth it. For a single feat, you gain access to dispel magic, invisibility, flight, sorcerous blast, and a bunch of other useful spells. 5th level is also a useful level.

IMO it's not worth taking more than a couple feats for it though.