Alternate Death Penalty

[Nebten]

I am currently running my party through War of the Burning Sky series and we had our first death a few sessions ago. Now while I have no problems killing a PC should the dice fall that way, I found how it caused an unforeseen problem.

As you are all aware, WotBS and other adventuring paths expect the PCs to be at a certain level by certain parts of the story. This becomes more important at higher levels. Now, PCs are already missing XP when they are unable to make a game. Some of the PCs were 2 levels behind the curb. I was able to supplement their XP with a side 1 on 1 game via PbeM. I also thought of pulling away from the main plot to do side-quests. But the problem with both of these options is that they are just farming XP. They are on this quest that may or may not have any relevance to the main storyline. There isn't much of a threat since if they die/ lose XP then it goes again the primary reason for such a game. Plus, our gaming sessions are becoming nearly monthly instead of bi-weekly, so I don't want to spend a session on a side quest. I could tone down the encounters as well, but this will compound the problem as time goes on. So I went ahead and level bumped everybody recently and continued with the quest.

Now that's out of the way, here is my proposal. Instead of level/XP loss, I was thinking either a -1 to Con or random stat loss. This way the players stay at the same level, but death is still something to avoid. Now I am very aware of how important stats are 3.5 D&D, but they can return either with level bumps, magic items or spells. They are all 13th level, so access to these implements is not hard to discover. Plus it would make things interesting how the player has to readjust to their new scores. Now of course once they have access to True Rez, this wouldn't be a problem. Has anybody tried this method, if so how did it work? Or does anybody else have an alterative method that still strikes fear into the players for not wanting to die. I like to put the pedal to the metal for a climatic encounter but I don’t want to have to pay for it too for doing so. I am not a fan of the revolving door of new characters should one die and nobody is looking to switch out a PC either.

I am aware of the 4th ed method, and I think that's kinda funky for a 3.5 game.

Thanx ahead of time,

Neb

 

[NovaBomb]

I do my death penalties kind of wierd but my players like it, what i do, is if someone dies and is then brought back to life i cut they're hit points in half semi-permanently, they can only be returned at a rate a 1hp a day (game time) or 1 + Con. Mod. a day for full bed rest (again game time) the reason i do this is because it makes no sense to die and come back not knowing how to do something you knew how to do before, hit points represent the spirt & and life energy your body lost, my players definitely don't want to die (no body wants to be at a hp disadvantage for 1, 2, or sometimes 3 months game time) but if done the right way, with extra healing items, spells & keeping a close watch on the character, adventures and missions are still do able, also when the a player is in the state of hp lose they can not craft anything that requires xp (magical arms and armor and things like that) oh yeah limited wish restores 1 week of hp damage and a wish or miracle restores 1 month of hp damage, tell what you think.

 

[Hawken]

A penalty to Con is nearly the same as level loss when it comes to lower Fort saves and reduced hit points--both of which would contribute to a quicker demise of the new character, thus speeding up the cycle of death and new characters.

You could penalize them by reducing their equipment (instead of having the wealth of an X level character, they get X-1), but that reduction in resources would also speed along their death.

If characters are brought back by Raise Dead or Resurrection, instead of an XP or level loss, give them a flat -4 penalty to all physical stats and rolls for an encounter. Reduce the penalty by -2 for the next encounter, then -1, then they have recovered enough to be at 'full'' strength.

If a character cannot be revived and a new one has to be made, just restrict what type of character can be brought in. Say that the character coming in has to be drawn from local races; no elves in the area, then the character doesn't get to come back as an elf; if there is a glut of soldiers in the area, then the character comes back as some kind of fighter.

I've been in games before where players have gotten their characters killed just to try out other concepts. The quickest way to end that is to restrict the races or classes they can come back as. Or, almost worse, instead of restriction, make their race and/or class of the new character randomly rolled.

This does not weaken the characters' levels, stats or resources they need to survive. It doesn't force other players to look out for them until they can pull their own weight. They get the same stats, same levels, same amount of resources as the existing players. And they even get an edge in that their resources are not drained where some other PCs may be injured or have used up a wand, some potions or whatever. Plus it allows the DM to bring in something that the PCs may need later on in the game.

 

[Psion]

I discussed this in an old thread a while back. Some of the original discussion happens here (and here and here), but the final form of the rules is posted in my blog, here:
xp-less-advancement-action-point-variant

As you can see by some of the discussion in those threads that I pretty much ignore, some folks are going for something totally different than me, but you seem to be going for something similar: divorcing death from party advancement and keeping party level the same.

It does rely on you using action points, but if you already do, it sounds like it could be just what you need.

 

[Nebten]

Thanx for your replies so far.
Nova: My game's timeline is pretty tight. For them to get a week or 2 off of down time is a big ordeal. So now that the PCs are at higher levels, some are reaching the 100 hit point mark. So that would mean 50 days to get back to full health. By that time, the adventure path would be nearly done. Plus they have to survive to get there. Of course, if they die again, which may happen, then they are just dropped back to 1/2 of total hps or total semi-hps? If its the former, then death the second time isn't that big of a deal since they just lose 7-10 hps. If its the later, then you have a 13th level PC going into battle with 25 hps. Not happy. Plus what happends when they level? Do they just gain all Hps back as if nothing happends?

Hawken: The method you explained is a more simple form of the 4th edition pentality. Maybe doing it for an encounter maybe too light. Purhaps have it last each week. But like I said before, my players are not looking for sudice to try new concepts. They've played these PCs for nearly a year and appear to enjoy each level and development in the story. Beside, if they come in with a new PC then that player losses all the presidge the previous one had which means something in a on-going campaign.

 

[Herzog]

The death-houserule I use in my campaign is rather mild, but I thought I'd share it anyway:

At death (or other level loss point, like level drain), the character loses an amount of XP equal to the amount of XP he needed to cross the last level-gap, or (current level - 1)x1000.
example: you need 4000 XP to get from level 4 to level 5. So, if you are level 5 and you die, you loose 4000 XP.

Instead of actually losing a level, you apply a -1 level adjustment to anything level related. (like caster level checks, caster level used to determine spell area size, range and damage)
If the character's level adjustment means he loses qualifications for a feat he has (like a 4th lvl fighter with weapon specialization getting the -1 level adjustment) the feat in question becomes inactive (but is not lost!)
It is also used to reduce your level when calculating XP gain.

To increase the impact, you could also apply it to BaB, skillchecks, etc as is done with temporary level loss.

These penalties go away when the character reaches his former level.

Note that it is possible that a character just short of the next level
(NB: at 14990 XP) will only lose the XP, but will have enough XP remaining to negate the -1 LA. This is intentional.

 

[Rhun]

I don't use loss of level in my games. I use either the loss of 1 point of Constitution or 1 point of Charisma (player's choice).

 

[Nebten]

How has that worked for you? Does that keep the game flowing well but still have enough of a risk/penality to avoid death?

 

[concerro]

As an experiment I am giving the missing player half of the XP he would have earned had he been present. He will still be behind, but it keeps him close enough so he can survive, and it stops me from giving away free levels when everyone else had to work for theirs.

I also have a rule that the difference between the highest and lowest leveled characters can only be 2.