D&D 5E Adjudicating Hide, You Decide Challenge!

[Mistwell]

I didn't have time to look at everything, but one thing that jumped out at me was your statement that the dagger of blindsight let you see through the fog cloud. Unless 5.5e changed things, blindsight doesn't let you see through it.

"BLINDSIGHT
A creature with blindsight can perceive its surroundings without relying on sight, within a specific radius. Creatures without eyes, such as oozes, and creatures with echolocation or heightened senses, such as bats and true dragons, have this sense."

Tasha's relies on you being able to see the target(s). As written, at least in 5e, that strategy wouldn't work since while you would know where they were, you could not see them. No idea about 5.5e, though.

Interesting point. 5.5e did change it. Here is how it now reads: "If you have Blindsight, you can see within a specific range without relying on physical sight. Within that range, you can see anything that isn’t behind Total Cover even if you have the Blinded condition or are in Darkness. Moreover, in that range, you can see something that has the Invisible condition."

 

[el-remmen]

That makes sense for when it's the enemy turn. For this set of questions I am only asking if the Rogue qualifies as hidden on the Rogue's turn, since the Rogue is trying to fire off a spell and apply disadvantage to the foe's saving throw on the Rogue's turn using a subclass ability.

I know combat is turn-based, but everything is all happening at once or in very fast succession, so know the flow of events is crucial for me in making decisions on how to apply the rules. What the enemies have seen and what they know does not change or go away just because it is not their turn. I guess for me to rule, I'd like to know what happened the turn before? Whether the halfling counts as hidden on his turn, depends in part on what has been happening until that point.

To break it down as basically as I can: If the enemies know where the halfling is because they saw him move there, even if he is out of sight, then he does not count as hidden, just having full cover. If he was able to move out of sight and then remain out of sight while moving elsewhere (based on a roll) so they can't know where he is (even though they know he is probably still around) then yes, he is hidden. This is why he is definitely hidden in the fog cloud. He has a lot of space to move around in without being seen, so it would be impossible for the enemies to pinpoint his position without a special sense or something like keen hearing.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

In every scenario, the lizard folk would call a retreat with the one with the most HP screening. If the PCs pursue, the ones with the least hp will use missile weapons to attack from a distance.

In short, they wouldn’t fight here. They are at a clear disadvantage. Which probably isn’t a helpful comment or what you are looking for.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

double post. The best strategy is to lure them in, hit them with Tasha’s to incapacitate and then drop a fog cloud on them and then go in and murder them

 

[Mistwell]

In every scenario, the lizard folk would call a retreat with the one with the most HP screening. If the PCs pursue, the ones with the least hp will use missile weapons to attack from a distance.

In short, they wouldn’t fight here. They are at a clear disadvantage. Which probably isn’t a helpful comment or what you are looking for.

Ha, yeah I randomly grabbed a monster to represent "foe"

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Ha, yeah I randomly grabbed a monster to represent "foe"

Oh so the HP of the enemies are not representative of the scenario?

 

[Mistwell]

Oh so the HP of the enemies are not representative of the scenario?

no. I guess I should have edited that. I just went to a random old map and grabbed the first monsters I saw on that map. I'm not adjudicating this particular encounter, just these particular 5 types of hiding positions.

And so far I really appreciate all the input. Most of it is how I would also adjudicate it, but some interesting points were made.

I've always wondered if there is any way to hide around a corner, and successfully sneak attack something at range (which this is also measuring) and I am unconvinced if there is.

 

[el-remmen]

I've always wondered if there is any way to hide around a corner, and successfully sneak attack something at range (which this is also measuring) and I am unconvinced if there is.

I know you mean specifically rulewise, but this is the kind of thing that falls into the "if I can imagine a skilled adventurer easily doing it, they should be able to at least try to do it, rules be damned" bucket.

But if a character is standing in 5-foot square right by a corner (like the halfling in one of the examples above), there is nothing in the rules that says he is standing in the center of that imaginary square - rather, he could be anywhere in that square, which means he can have his back pressed to the wall and have total cover from those on the other side of the corner. And on his turn, step far enough away from the wall to take a shot beyond it and then move back to his cover position without expending movement or requiring a check of any kind.

If he has Advantage on that shot for any reason (or an ally is within 5' of the target), he can use his sneak attack at range in that situation.

 

[Charlaquin]

I've always wondered if there is any way to hide around a corner, and successfully sneak attack something at range (which this is also measuring) and I am unconvinced if there is.

Well, if the rogue in scenario 5 was just one square (5 feet) south of where you have them in the image, they would have total cover from all three enemies, so they could try to hide in that position, and then move 5 feet up to get LOS to the enemies and cast their spell or make their ranged attack or whatever. At at that point it would be down to a DM judgement call if the rogue could remain hidden when they move from a space with total cover to a space with only half cover, but I think most DMs would probably allow it. I certainly would.

 

[Charlaquin]

I know you mean specifically rulewise, but this is the kind of thing that falls into the "if I can imagine a skilled adventurer easily doing it, they should be able to at least try to do it, rules be damned" bucket.

But if a character is standing in 5-foot square right by a corner (like the halfling in one of the examples above), there is nothing in the rules that says he is standing in the center of that imaginary square - rather, he could be anywhere in that square, which means he can have his back pressed to the wall and have total cover from those on the other side of the corner. And on his turn, step far enough away from the wall to take a shot beyond it and then move back to his cover position without expending movement or requiring a check of any kind.

If he has Advantage on that shot for any reason (or an ally is within 5' of the target), he can use his sneak attack at range in that situation.

By the same token though, the enemies can be anywhere within their squares, which is why the rules for determining cover on a grid have you choose any corner of the seeker’s square and draw lines from it to every corner of the hider’s square. This gives you a kind of superposition where both creatures are assumed to be occupying the entirety of their square simultaneously, or you could think of it as the “average” of how well the creatures would be able to see each other, given that they are all probably in near-constant motion in the heat of combat.