9th Level Spell Foresight: Useless?

[Gothic_Demon]

Is it just me (and I freely admit, it could be! ), or is this spell pretty poor for a 9th level spell? Does it have any saving graces at all?

 

[ARandomGod]

Is it just me (and I freely admit, it could be! ), or is this spell pretty poor for a 9th level spell? Does it have any saving graces at all?

It's saving grace, and indeed it's main point, is all in the flavor text. This spell is supposed to grant a sort of spidey sense... Enough to actually stop you from going into the danger area in the first place. Mechanically they don't meantion this in 3.X. It's a carryover spell from Dungeons and Dragons, where it was very powerful, more powerful than a typical ninth level spell in 3.X

However, you're right. Without that (using only the mechanics specifically pointed out in the spell) it's really not a very good spell at all.

 

[the Jester]

ARandomGod has it right- it's all about knowing you're about to do something dangerous before it happens. Orbius, the high-level diviner in my epic game, certainly uses it a lot; in fact, prolly more often than he casts any other 9th level spell.

 

[Angel of Adventure]

Yeah, its a good spell, but it would be nice if they quantified the benefits of it a bit more. Its all flavor, which is helpful to someone who's about to make a mistake, but there should also be a saving throw/AC bonus associated with 'knowing' that something bad is going to happen.

 

[dcollins]

Is it just me (and I freely admit, it could be! ), or is this spell pretty poor for a 9th level spell? Does it have any saving graces at all?

You're right, as written it's an incredibly poor 9th level spell. Whenever it's brought up, a lot of people claim to recall some prior version which was incredibly powerful and claimed that with the spell, "the DM should just hand the adventure over to the player" -- however, I've never seen any evidence for this claim.

Foresight did not exist in any 1st Ed. AD&D rulebook.
It did exist in 2nd Ed. AD&D, with basically identical language to the current version.

 

[dungeon blaster]

The problem with Foresight in 3.x D&D is that everything must be written in "D&D legalese", specifiying the exact effects that the spell creates. Now, I'm not arguing whether this is good or bad, only that Foresight's flavor text does not specify effects in accordance with the "legalese". To make Foresight a worthy 9th-level spell, one must look at the flavor text and extrapolate possible effects, other than the meager effects already provided. I would recommend looking at the spell moment of prescience, which is similar to Foresight, but only lasts for a single moment. How about the caster of Foresight gains a +8 bonus to one save, attack, or to AC every round? I might also grant the evasion ability.

 

[Whimsical]

Here's a better 9th level combat divination that I made up:

Rary's Uncanny Combat Sense: with this 9th level divination, you can instantly detect the number, intelligence, and pinpoint the location of all conscious creatures within Close range for one round/level. The effect is similar to detect thoughts, but without the need to concentrate or to wait three rounds to detect everything. In addition, you gain the following advantages over the creature who fail their Will save against this spell. You cannot be surprised (or otherwise lose your dexterity bonus) or flanked by these creatures unless you are helpless. You gain a +1 insight bonus per four caster levels to your armor class, saving throws, attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and the save DCs of your spells, spell-like, and supernatural abilities when attacking or defending against the affected creatures. You also sense the surface thoughts of any or all of the affected creatures without any language barrier. Rary's Uncanny Combat Sense is a mind-affecting effect.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Previous discussions on this topic

Foresight: Worst 9th Level Spell?

and

Overpowered/Underpowered Spells?

IIRC those earlier discussions basically boiled down to 'it depends on how your DM wants to run it". If you have a DM who is sympathetic towards the spell it is great, if not, it is virtually useless.

You might find those threads entertaining reading.

Cheers

 

[Diirk]

Here's a better 9th level combat divination that I made up:

Rary's Uncanny Combat Sense: with this 9th level divination, you can instantly detect the number, intelligence, and pinpoint the location of all conscious creatures within Close range for one round/level. The effect is similar to detect thoughts, but without the need to concentrate or to wait three rounds to detect everything. In addition, you gain the following advantages over the creature who fail their Will save against this spell. You cannot be surprised (or otherwise lose your dexterity bonus) or flanked by these creatures unless you are helpless. You gain a +1 insight bonus per four caster levels to your armor class, saving throws, attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and the save DCs of your spells, spell-like, and supernatural abilities when attacking or defending against the affected creatures. You also sense the surface thoughts of any or all of the affected creatures without any language barrier. Rary's Uncanny Combat Sense is a mind-affecting effect.

No offense, but thats pretty horrible. Will negates for each creature? Mind effecting? Ugh. Just think, against whole swarms of potential enemies you get what amounts to little more than 60' tremorsense (its a bit better, but not not hugely so). Constructs, undead, plants, elementals, vermin, anyone with mindblank... all immune. In exchange for this, the foes that aren't immune get to make a save (DC 19 + attribute modifier... so likely 24-28) to negate the spell. And then those that don't save... well, I don't think the effect is worthy of a 9th level spell with so many drawbacks.

 

[Whimsical]

Good point. This is just a brainstorm version of the spell. I haven't codified it yet.