D&D (2024) 75 Feats -- not nearly enough

[FitzTheRuke]

Him asked how many pages. The fact that you dodged with "a small section in two books" is telling.

Really? Dodged? "Telling"? Telling of what? You seem to attribute to me strong feelings on a subject that I just don't have. This isn't the first time, either.

They just put out a full book of magic items to give you a ballpark for starting with.

What book is that?

It's absolutely a failure of design to be putting out an entire book of something unsupported by the system's math because then the gm needs to finish what should have been done in the core for wotc.

"Should have been done". According to whom? I'm pretty sure that the designers just disagree with you on this. OTOH, I don't particularly care either way. I'm probably actually closer to you on the subject then them. But who knows?

I don't have a problem with magic items having a GP cost. It's not like a DM needs to make any of them available for sale, just because they have prices. And "prices" would be at least one way to judge them. Then again, they'd probably have stupid prices, like they used to do.

the shift from a statement about the lack of information over goals making "better" ring hollow to the absolute certainty of "Magic Items won't be expected, they are meant to be pure bonus" demonstrates why wotc's eggshell treading attempt to have it both ways is an objective failure on wotc's part

I have no idea what you're saying here. It might be the hyperbole, but I'm not really sure. I really try to follow you, too - I like to read your posts (when you're not accusing me of holding some sort of "telling" position that I don't actually hold.)

 

[Kobold Stew]

I addressed earlier that I'm not talking about optimized builds.

Nor am I. Good.

Even people who don't care about min/maxing can still care about not feeling like they're a liability to the team.

True! And the 2014 PHB had feats like that. Good thing that's not what this thread is discussing!

Currently, there are a small handful of feats that are so ridiculously good in comparison to the rest that (in my anecdotal experience) the people who choose feats usually stick with those few.

True, if by "currently" you re referrning to the 2014 PHB. What about the playtest feats, though, which are the only insight we have about the 2024 PHB? Are there still only a "handful"? If so, which ones?

There are still some feats I think I won't have characters take, but I'm not sure there are ones no one will take.

Which specific feats in the playtest materials make you think this?

 

[Horwath]

I addressed earlier that I'm not talking about optimized builds.

Currently, there are a small handful of feats that are so ridiculously good in comparison to the rest that (in my anecdotal experience) the people who choose feats usually stick with those few.

Even people who don't care about min/maxing can still care about not feeling like they're a liability to the team.

problem is that those feats are too good in comparison to others, but not beacause they are too good overall, but because other feats are complete garbage and waste of ink and page space.

even GWM and SS are strictly not better than +2 STR/DEX, unless you count large and consistent accuracy buffs.
but even then, you lose other benefits of having +1 modifier of primary stat outside attack/damage rolls, especially for +2 dex vs. SS.
Also, do not mention getting those feats after 20 in primary as that is 12th level+(except fighter or custom lineage) where 90%+ campaigns are over.

but, I 100% agree with removing -5/+10 part of GMW/SS and giving +1 ASI as that made combat more predictable and easier to balance. Better hit rate and lower damage is always better than lower hit rate and higher damage.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm less concerned with boring choices that are valid than I am choices that are fun but kinda suck.

I think most people (including myself) are willing sacrifice some amount of +N to get something we would have more fun with. However, I don't believe the game should be built around needing to do that.

And they've taken these and either halved the cost (by attaching a +1 ASI), put them in a different box (first level feats, replacing the old background benefits), buffed them, or some combination of the above.

I addressed earlier that I'm not talking about optimized builds.

Currently, there are a small handful of feats that are so ridiculously good in comparison to the rest that (in my anecdotal experience) the people who choose feats usually stick with those few.

And those four feats (GWM, PAM, SS, XBE) have all had the synergies that make them ridiculously good taken away.

Even people who don't care about min/maxing can still care about not feeling like they're a liability to the team.

Indeed. They are getting rebalanced. The rebalance won't be perfect but looks a huge improvement.

 

[Horwath]

And they've taken these and either halved the cost (by attaching a +1 ASI), put them in a different box (first level feats, replacing the old background benefits), buffed them, or some combination of the above.

And those four feats (GWM, PAM, SS, XBE) have all had the synergies that make them ridiculously good taken away.

Indeed. They are getting rebalanced. The rebalance won't be perfect but looks a huge improvement.

feats should be put in two categories:
Combat
Non Combat

with separate slots.

you can always take non combat feat instead of combat one, but not vice versa.

then you can leave space for:
actor, chef, cartomancer, dungeon delver, keen mind, linguist and others.

 

[tetrasodium]

feats should be put in two categories:
Combat
Non Combat

with separate slots.

you can always take non combat feat instead of combat one, but not vice versa.

then you can leave space for:
actor, chef, cartomancer, dungeon delver, keen mind, linguist and others.

I thing that's the wrong direction. If the availability isn't expanded in meaningful ways it doesn't really matter to have feats tagged with something that is only functionally useful for sorting the list of feats on ddb.

3.x did a good job of accomplishing the job of expanding feat access when it made sense within class design while providing solid support for future expansion with things like the fighter and wizard bonus feats where anyone who met the prerequisites could take them when they got a feat but classes & PrCs that got extra feats instead of features could take feats that called themselves out as being an acceptable choice for them to take as a bonus feat.

 

[Neonchameleon]

problem is that those feats are too good in comparison to others, but not beacause they are too good overall, but because other feats are complete garbage and waste of ink and page space.

Indeed. I think the list of full feats I've seen ever played are:

• Great Weapon Master
• Polearm Master
• Sentinel
• Sharpshooter
• Eldritch Adept: Silent Image At Will
• Magic Initiate
• Tough
• Lucky

And the half feats are:

• Actor
• Observant
• Heavy Armour Master
• Piercer
• Crusher
• Fey Touched
• Telekinetic
• Chef

Possibly also Shadow Touched, Telepathic, War Caster, and Resilient (Con). And for the record both Actor and Observant were by me - and I'm a near-perma DM.

 

[Horwath]

Indeed. I think the list of full feats I've seen ever played are:

• Great Weapon Master
• Polearm Master
• Sentinel
• Sharpshooter
• Eldritch Adept: Silent Image At Will
• Magic Initiate
• Tough
• Lucky

And the half feats are:

• Actor
• Observant
• Heavy Armour Master
• Piercer
• Crusher
• Fey Touched
• Telekinetic
• Chef

Possibly also Shadow Touched, Telepathic, War Caster, and Resilient (Con). And for the record both Actor and Observant were by me - and I'm a near-perma DM.

I have never seen tough. so boring feat, I would rather take +2 CON and increase saves vs. little more HP.
And never Chef or actor , even though those are cool feats.

Personally, I have taken Telekinetic on 3 characters, best feat in the game. excellent balance.
Also I have seen Skill expert taken quite a few times.

Observant + Skill expert perception is excellent, especially on druid as it is primary stat and fill the animalistic senses theme.

 

[Horwath]

I thing that's the wrong direction. If the availability isn't expanded in meaningful ways it doesn't really matter to have feats tagged with something that is only functionally useful for sorting the list of feats on ddb.

3.x did a good job of accomplishing the job of expanding feat access when it made sense within class design while providing solid support for future expansion with things like the fighter and wizard bonus feats where anyone who met the prerequisites could take them when they got a feat but classes & PrCs that got extra feats instead of features could take feats that called themselves out as being an acceptable choice for them to take as a bonus feat.

it helps to have characters focused on more things than one.

I.E.
you are fighter with 3 feat slots:
and have option of Great weapon master, polearm master, sentinel, Skilled, Skill expert, Chef. actor and telepathic.

Most fighters would take the 3 out 3 combat feats, but since non combat feats are not potent enough, we can give extra feat slot and have 2 combat feat slots and 2 non combat feat slots

then that fighter might get GWM and PAM with Skill expert and telepathic.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I have never seen tough. so boring feat, I would rather take +2 CON and increase saves vs. little more HP.
And never Chef or actor , even though those are cool feats.

I don't expect your list to be quite the same as mine; we're different people and both have low sample sizes. And Chef isn't just a cool feat but surprisingly strong. Actor you need to be in the mood for shenanigans; I'm the only person I've seen take it, and that only on a warlock who was about to get Disguise Self At Will (a vuman feat). TOugh I agree is bad.

Personally, I have taken Telekinetic on 3 characters, best feat in the game. excellent balance.
Also I have seen Skill expert taken quite a few times.

Skill Expert I've seen shortlisted but never actually taken. I'm not sure why but again this is a low sample size thing.

Observant + Skill expert perception is excellent, especially on druid as it is primary stat and fill the animalistic senses theme.

My observant monk was more than effective enough to be a walking detection mechanism, not needing Skill Expert. IMO it may need a nerf.