5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

Cleon

Legend
And a go at the jarl...put the making of a pine kindred as a lair action...(????)

I was thinking of giving the Jarl some kind of lair actions too, but I'm not sure making pine kindred qualifies.

Aren't lair actions normally usable during combat? If it takes a minimum of 4 hours the Jarl can hardly bust it out in the middle of a melee. Most lair actions I see on 5E monsters are usable once per round, but that doesn't seem right. We don't want the jarl reviving fallen adventures as pine kindred the round after they're killed do we?

For lair actions, my ideas were more along the lines of "creates a transport via plants across the lair that only pine kindred can transit", "fills the lair with fog" or "a few zombies burst from the ground!" (if we did stat up 1/4 CR Pine Thralls I'd have used those instead).

My idea was making Pine Kindred is a ritual that Jarls can use once per day at midnight, but it only works in some sort of pine kindred sacrificial site (could be an unholy grove, woodhenge, blood-caked menhir or all three). Rather than any Medium-size corpse, I'd have it only work on a Medium living humanoid or possibly an intact Medium-size humanoid corpse that died up to an hour ago.

That seems like it'd make a better plot hook. Causes pine kindred to capture victims alive for sacrifice-transformation in their unholy groves (or wherever), then the heroic adventurers assaulting the Jarl's lair in an attempt to rescue captives before they die at midnight.

But I'm leaving than can of worms for when we get around to the Jarl.
 

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Cleon

Legend
Oh, and why is the Thane a 3rd level spellcaster and the Jarl a 5th level spellcaster?

The White Dwarf versions cast spells a level higher, 4th and 6th.
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
(a) agree with ditching the undead fortitude (yes it was a leftover from zombie statblock and I forgot it wasn't a feature of wights etc.)
(b) like the idea of spells/cantrips that catch rather than kill people so they can keep the bodies as preserved as possible to make more
(c) multiattack a good idea - have kept weaker strength and sabres (yr preferred option) as didn't want to make them too strong (I guess I see them as a bit of a mob monster, more so than (say) wights)
(d) Just stuck the making of further kindred as lair action as wasnt sure where to put it - yr idea is good
(e) I nerfed the levels slightly as everyone gets more spells these days - can be higher again I suppose to be true to original wording I don't feel strongly either way so happy to increase to original lvls).
(f) lair actions sound cool - maybe instead of thralls, the jarl can call forth some small animals that have been "pined" (as does'nt make sense why thralls are weaker than base pine brothers) - so 2d4+2 critters (beavers/squirrels/weasels/rats/cats) that have low CR stat blocks. A freezin fog with low level necrotic damage as another lair action..?
(g) I did think about making "Pine hounds" as a companion monster.
(h) I like the idea of ritual involving a special sacred area at midnight with a living or freshly dead (relatively) intact corpse - can explain that chance is greatest with a living victim but still has some chance with freshly dead one.
 

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Cleon

Legend
(e) I nerfed the levels slightly as everyone gets more spells these days - can be higher again I suppose to be true to original wording I don't feel strongly either way so happy to increase to original lvls).

Afraid not, in First-Edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Druid tended to have more spells than most other editions of D&D.

For comparison:

A 4th-level 1E AD&D Druid has four 1st-level, two 2nd-level and two 3rd-level spells, plus any bonus spells for high Wisdom. In 5E they have two cantrips, four 1st-level and three 2nd-level.

A 6th-level 1E AD&D Druid has four 1st-level, three 2nd-level, two 3rd-level spells and one 4th-level spell plus any bonuses. In 5E they have three cantrips, four 1st-level, three 2nd-level, and three 3rd-level.

It was 2E and later that the Druid basically had the same number of spells as the Cleric.

I'll have to check my collection, but I vaguely recall the Original D&D version of the Druid from Eldritch Wizardry (1976) had more spells than a cleric too, but then OD&D clerics had fewer spells in general - they didn't get any at all until 2nd level!

Presumably the early edition's more numerous spells was meant to compensate them for having a fairly crappy armour and weapon selection, and some of their spells gave less "bang for the buck" (their healing spells tended to burn higher levels, for example). but they still had some pretty meaty spells to choose from.
 

Cleon

Legend
(f) lair actions sound cool - maybe instead of thralls, the jarl can call forth some small animals that have been "pined" (as does'nt make sense why thralls are weaker than base pine brothers) - so 2d4+2 critters (beavers/squirrels/weasels/rats/cats) that have low CR stat blocks. A freezin fog with low level necrotic damage as another lair action..?

That can work too, although if you're doing statblocks for "Pine Critters" there seems little reason not to do low-CR "Pine Thralls" instead or as well.

As for why it makes sense that Thralls are weaker than the standard "Brothers", my reasoning was when a living humanoid is properly sacrifice in an unholy grove and a Pine Kindred Jarl promptly uses the whatever-we-decide-to-call-it power upon the corpse while infusing it with pine sap (maybe including sap from a pine kindred?), then the corpse becomes a "Full-Blooded" Pine Kindred.

If it's been a corpse too long or the ritual worked but wasn't quite right, the corpse becomes a Pine Kindred Thrall, a zombie-like thing with a body of rotting flesh and loam hanging from an earth-stained humanoid skeleton, held together by winding tree roots. Perhaps if the ritual went almost right, it might creates a Pine Carl, an intermediary creature capable of incompetently casting a single cantrip if it gets lucky, (as per the original draft of the Kindred).

So I'm imagining the Thralls/Carls as being more like Pine-Zombies than Pine-Wights.

The "base version" of the Pine Kindred doesn't have to be the lowest Challenge Rating creature in the family. Just consider Vampires: a Vampire is CR 13 while a Vampire Spawn is CR 5.

Perhaps the Jarl (or a Thane?) takes a bit of damage from transfusing their life-sap into a Pine Kindred they're creating, so they might be able to do a partial transfusion which does less bleeding damage but only creates Thralls or Carls? Or maybe the sap of a Thane or even a normal Pine Kindred is good enough to turn a corpse into a Pine-Zombie when the Jarl performs the ritual, so the boss doesn't have to take damage when making Thralls?
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Okay - will readjust other two to 4th and 6th level casters and make thralls and critters. Anything else you want to tweak with the base monster before moving to thane/jarl?
 


Cleon

Legend
Okay - will readjust other two to 4th and 6th level casters and make thralls and critters. Anything else you want to tweak with the base monster before moving to thane/jarl?

Well we've got a bit of a ways to go as there's still the Description.

After checking Pine Kindred Version #5, I came up with the following tweaks.

Firstly we should put in some numbers for those "##" and "+#" in Spellcasting.

Let's see, Spell Save DC is 8 with +0 for Wis and +2 Proficiency for DC 10.

Attack roll is just the bonuses, for +2.

So that's "(spell save DC 10; +2 to hit with spell attacks)" for that bit.

Secondly, shouldn't there be spaces between Multiattack, Scimitar and Darts in the Action section?

Thirdly, the Multiattack should have "scimitar attacks" not "sabre attacks". I copy-pasted the previous iteration and forgot to change the weapon name. Oops!

Fourthly, the Wailing Shriek seems more potent in some elements and less potent in others, at least compared to the original.

The White Dwarf #21 version affected everyone within "ear shot" (i.e. anyone who could hear it) and caused those who failed a Morale check at -20% to flee for an awful long time. The 1–8 turns duration being 10 to 80 minutes since an AD&D turn is 10 melee rounds, each of which is a minute!

However, it only affects Non-Player Characters, not PCs. The use of a Morale check suggests the intention was it can make the adventurer's hirelings and henchmen run away, but the Player Characters are brave heroes made of sterner stuff.

I don't believe 5E distinguishes between Non-Player and Player run creatures like the really old-school games do.

Also it didn't cause any combat penalties, while frightened causes disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls, which is really effective in 5E.

I'd rather just have the victims be supernaturally compelled to run away, kind of a "reverse harpy song" were they victims are trying to widen the distance between themselves and the monster rather than narrow it.

For that matter, does it have to be a bonus action? The original text doesn't specify.

How about we make it an Action that they can use as part of their Multiattack, like a Wight's Life Drain?

Maybe make a creature that save successfully immune for 24 hours against that "rank" of Pine Kindred? Perhaps have it limited by Hit Dice?

The Harpy's Luring Song seems a good foundation to base it on.

What do you think of this:

Shrieking Wail. The pine kindred howls a terrifying dirge. Every humanoid and giant within within 300 feet of the pine kindred that can hear the wail must succeed on a DC 10 Wisdom saving throw or be compelled to flee in panic until the wail ends; acting as if they had failed their save against a suggestion spell telling them to "run in terror". The kindred must take a bonus action on its subsequent turns to continue wailing. It can stop wailing at any time. The wail ends if the kindred is incapacitated. While affected by the wail, a target ignores the wails of other pine kindred. If the target is within 300 feet of the kindred, the target must move on its turn away from the kindred by the most direct route, trying to get as far away as possible. The target tries to circumvent opportunity attacks and obvious damaging terrain, such as lava or a pit. Whenever it takes damage, the target can repeat the saving throw. The target can also repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns. If the saving throw is successful, the suggestion effect ends on it. The suggestion also ends if the target stops hearing the wail or flees outside ear shot (i.e. more than 300 feet away from the wailing kindred). A target who successfully saves is immune to the wails of any pine kindred with the same or fewer Hit Dice as the kindred they saved against, but can be affected by the shrieking wails of pine kindred with more Hit Dice, such as Thanes or Jarls.​

If we made it part of a Multiattack we'd need to tweak the above by replacing the "bonus action" with "multiattack action" and replace Multiattack with.

Multiattack: The pine kindred makes two scimitar attacks or two dart attacks. It can use its Shrieking Wail in place of one scimitar attack or dart attack.​

Currently I prefer the Multiattack version.
 


Cleon

Legend
ok here's a thrall

That looks pretty good to me.

I'd cut out the resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing attacks.

The AC should be lower as it doesn't have the Full Kindred's +2 Dex bonus.

Armour Class 13?

I was thinking of giving them a basic melee weapon too, like a club or spear.

Liking a spear better, it's the classic peasant militia weapon.

Spear. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage or 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage if used with two hands. Ranged Weapon Attack: +2 to hit, range 20/60 feet, one target. Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage.

Upon reflection, maybe just give it darts like regular Pine Kindred. I wouldn't have them multiattack with darts though.

Dart. Ranged Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, range 20/60 feet, one target. Hit: 3 (1d4 + 1) piercing damage.

So they chuck a dart or two (or a spear?) while charging into melee to claw at their opponents.
 

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