D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

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[dave2008]

Ok, here is a third option that is a combination of the two (plus added the wings back in):

 

[dave2008]

Why did you take away several of its traits?

making room. Those traits are unnecessary IMO. battle ready is really only there to explain why it has a 23 on initiative and amphibious is best left to descriptive text, it doesn't belong in a stat block IMO.

 

[Quickleaf]

sure, but the separate physical attacks could have fun unique traits too. The bite could grapple and swallow. The tail can push, knock prone, or stun (or all three). So I think there is a place of separate attacks on something as big and iconic as a dragon

I don't really have an opinion about the Rend vs. Claw/Bite thing specifically, but I do have a concern about a greater level of abstraction seeping into 2024 D&D.

What is the narrative behind Corrosive Miasma? What is happening there? Is the green dragon moving in a fast circle like a cat exhaling gas? Is the poison acting like an acid? Is the poison dissolving away skin even and that's why AC is reduced? I can't picture what's going on there easily. And I feel like if a stat block does ANYTHING, it's got to paint a clear picture of what the monster can do – not just numbers, but how I convey this to the players and paint a picture in their minds.

"Rend" is... it's not problematic for me... but it is a move toward greater abstraction... has me leaning back in my chair skeptically and watching closely.

This kind of stuff is what wrecked me in 4e.

 

[dave2008]

I don't really have an opinion about the Rend vs. Claw/Bite thing specifically, but I do have a concern about a greater level of abstraction seeping into 2024 D&D.

What is the narrative behind Corrosive Miasma? What is happening there? Is the green dragon moving in a fast circle like a cat exhaling gas? Is the poison acting like an acid? Is the poison dissolving away skin even and that's why AC is reduced? I can't picture what's going on there easily. And I feel like if a stat block does ANYTHING, it's got to paint a clear picture of what the monster can do – not just numbers, but how I convey this to the players and paint a picture in their minds.

"Rend" is... it's not problematic for me... but it is a move toward greater abstraction... has me leaning back in my chair skeptically and watching closely.

This kind of stuff is what wrecked me in 4e.

Interesting. Your the second person to question the Miasma on this discussion. For me it immediately conjured an image and I didn't question what it was at all. On reflection I see that it could be interpreted different ways, but I am, or was, fine with that. With 2 questioning opinions it makes me wonder now.

FYI:
To me it is clearly conjuring magical gases (a point 90 feet away) that corrode metal and poison flesh. I never thought to question it. Very cool and evocative IMO.

 

[mamba]

I'm not so sure that I like spells like Shocking Grasp suddenly being worth spending a Legendary Resistance on so that they don't lose the ability to do reactions. It seems like it's making an additional category of save-or-suck spells, but only against solo creatures.

agreed, I probably will continue to consider them legendary actions for this

 

[dave2008]

Yeah, but that’s not how they were in 5e. I would enjoy that too, but I still prefer the catch all Rend over the previous system’s implementation.

Well I was never looking to 2014 5e for good dragon design! I think the 2024 is definitely better than the 2014 dragon, I just want to make it even more so.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Interesting. Your the second person to question the Miasma on this discussion. For me it immediately conjured an image and I didn't question what it was at all. On reflection I see that it could be interpreted different ways, but I am, or was, fine with that. With 2 questioning opinions it makes me wonder now.

FYI:
To me it is clearly conjuring magical gases (a point 90 feet away) that corrode metal and poison flesh. I never thought to question it. Very cool and evocative IMO.

Corrode metal, except just until the next turn when the metal is back being fine? What about people who didn't wear armour in the first place? Why don't their metal weapons corrode too and have damage penalty?

 

[dave2008]

agreed, I probably will continue to consider them legendary actions for this

As others have noted, I believe they have changes those spells and abilities so that they only effect OA. Therefore bespoke reactions are no different from Legendary Actions now except for the trigger (and some of those are usually the same).

 

[dave2008]

Corrode metal, except just until the next turn when the metal is back being fine? What about people who didn't wear armour in the first place? Why don't their metal weapons corrode too and have damage penalty?

Well since AC is not just a function of armor you could easily envision the poison is affecting you in such a way that you cannot move as well or anticipate as well to avoid attacks. That makes more sense, but the corrosion is the first thing that came to my mind because it was cool - it was just wrong. That's OK, it is all cleared up now!

The salient point was that it is conjuring magic gasses (in my mind), how they affect you is magical in any way you want to describe.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Sorry, I haven't read all 27 pages of this, but I was wondering if lairs could be like the cradles of the scions and be a separate monster (except they are active at the same time as the monster whose lair it is). If you can get the monster out of the lair, the lair monster basically shuts down (until the lair's boss gets back in it).