Reviewing, Revising, and Finalizing Prehistoric Animals and Dinosaur Ecology

Cleon

Legend
About the only dinosaur that qualifies is Amphicoelias- and then, only if you're not using "very tight space" but are willing to place a 30 ft body on a 40 ft space.

Quite. Even Gargantuan is a severe stretch for the non-sauropod dinosaurs. I would think it conceivably that the largest Ceratopsian may have reached 30,000 pounds and the largest Hadrosaurs 25,000, so extraordinary individuals may just creep above Huge size. Of course, many of the 3E dinosaurs can advance to Gargantuan, even if it not very realistic, so I'm planning to include stats for them.

On marine reptiles- 25 metre Walking with Dinosaurs Liopleurodon could have fitted into normal Colossal (30 ft space, 30 ft bite reach, 20 ft tail slap).

Since that turned out to be a massive overestimate based on guesswork, I doubt any other marine reptile was that big.

That would be the exaggeration in "exaggeratedly large estimates" I mentioned upthread.:)

Anyhow, of realistic prehistoric marine reptiles I consider Shonisaurus sikanniensis the only credible candidate for Colossal size. I guesstimate a 70 foot specimen would weigh somewhere around 100-150 metric tons, probably closer to the former since it was apparently slimmer than Shonisaurus popularis, which would be more like 50 feet long and 50 tons. They could also have grown bigger than the current 21m estimate of the type specimen, which I think would definitely make them Colossal.

I'd also think 50 feet is probably a good round number for the largest Pliosaurs, Elasmosaurs and Mosasaurs, I don't recall any solid fossil evidence for individuals larger than that.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Cleon

Legend
Some of the armored sauropoda are in my list for creatures I need specifically for my campaign setting. Cleon, you did at one time ask me if there was a list I did not post here... Here for dinos and here for prims. Both of those and more content is featured on the Elftown wikipage for Nym (setting).

Okay, I'll have a look at your dinosaur list...

...Hmm, the Megaraptor stats I posted back on page 1 of this thread will do for Baryonyx in a pinch, and I think I've pretty well covered most of the Sauropods and Thyreophoran armoured dinosaurs.

I've already got takes on Coelophysis, Dilophosaurus, Spinosaurus and Ornithomimosaurs practically finished, so I can hopefully post those in a day or three.

EDIT: Hold on, I'd already posted my Ornithomimid stats when I unveiled my take on Deinocheirus.:EDIT

OK, I've finished off Coelophysis and it's cousins, so will post them up. Oh, and I discovered I've already finished a take on Spinosaurus, so might as well post that too.

As I mentioned upthread, I remembered I've already finished & posted the Ornithomimids.

I'll probably do the Therizinosaurs next, then maybe tackle some more herbivores.

Perhaps the horned dinosaurs?
 

Cleon

Legend
Lightweight Carnosaurs (Coelophysoids)

Coelophysoids and other Lightweight Carnosaurs
The Coelophysidae are a primitive group of predatory dinosaurs with a particularly lightweight built. Their stats could be used for any modest sized carnivorous dinosaurs with a similar build - shortish arms, slim and light body, long necks and small heads - although some such creatures, such as Compsognathus, are advanced enough they should really have slightly modified stats.

I've included poisonous variants of some Coelophysoids, inspired by the Jurassic Park novels which made several members of this group (Procompsognathus and Dilophosaurus) venomous. While there is absolutely no evidence for this trait, it makes for an interesting ability, so I thought it worth having stats for them.

Coelophysis
Late Triassic (225-210 MYA)
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 1d8 (4 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–5
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1) and 2 claws –1 melee (1d2-1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:(Poison?)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 9, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +5
Feats: Endurance, Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, pack (3-12) or flock (10-60)
Challenge Rating: 1/3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment:

A small bipedal dinosaur with lean legs and short arms, with a very long tail more than half its entire length, a slim body and long, S-curved neck. Its smallish, narrow head is as whippet-thin as the rest of its body, with large eyes and jaws full of slicing teeth.

Coelophysis is one of the earliest known dinosaurs. They have an extremely light build, with hollow bones to save weight, making them fragile but remarkably swift. They are opportunistic hunters and scavengers, roaming the land in search of carrion or vulnerable prey. A lone Coelophysis rarely preys on anything larger than a lizard, but these animals often congregate in flocks, and have been known to bring down victims of considerable size by swarming over them.

A group of Coelophysis does not have a leadership hierarchy as such, they move in concert through a flocking instinct. It may appear that the biggest, oldest Coelophysis have a commanding role in the flock, but this is simply because their greater experience means they are most likely to spot potential food first, and are strong enough to push to the front in order to reach it.

Despite their delicate appearance these are fairly resilient little creatures, able to survive in harsh condition. There are claims they will sometimes resort to cannibalism of their own young.

The above statistics represent an adolescent or young adult Coelophysis. In a typical population, there is a 2 Hit Dice mature adult for every four such young adults, and a 3 Hit Dice elder Coelophysis for every twenty young adults. Depending on how recent and successful the breeding season was, there may be additional ½HD Tiny juveniles equal in number to the young adults or a greater number of Diminutive or Fine sized hatchlings. See below for typical stats for such creatures.

A young adult Coelophysis is 5 or 6 feet long, weighing about 10 pounds.

Combat
When fighting an opponent near its own size, a Coelophysis will instinctively try to circle around to bite its foe from the flanks. A flock of Coelophysis will cooperate to attack prey but do not coordinate tactics beyond rushing in en masse to bite a wounded or otherwise vulnerable victim.

[Poison (Ex): If you choose to use the venomous Coelophysoid option, the Coelophysis has a poisonous bite that does 1d3 Strength damage as both initial and secondary damage, with a DC10 Fortitude save. Coelophysis venom is painful and debilitating, but rarely fatal – assuming the dinosaurs don't eat you while you're helpless. The save DC is Constitution-based.

A venomous Coelophysis has a Challenge Rating of 1/2 ?
]

Skills
A Coelophysis has a +4 racial bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

Coelophysis, Mature Adult
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 2d8 (9 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/–3
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d4)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d4) and 2 claws +0 melee (1d2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:[Poison? [DC11, 1d3 Str]?]
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +1
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +5, Spot +6, Survival +5
Feats: Endurance, Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, pack (3-12) or flock (10-60)
Challenge Rating: 1/2 [CR1 with poison?]
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

A mature adult Coelophysis is from 7 to 8 feet long and weighs about 30 pounds.

Coelophysis, Big
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+3
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6+1) and 2 claws +0 melee (1d3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:[Poison? [DC12, 1d4 Str]?]
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +5, Listen +7, Spot +8, Survival +6
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, pack (3-12) or flock (10-60)
Challenge Rating: 1 (CR2 with poison?)
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

These are simply Coelophysis that have lived long enough to grow to unusual size.

A big Coelophysis is about 10 feet long and 60 pounds or so, they stand roughly a yard tall.

Coelophysis, Juvenile
Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½d8 (2 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +3 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–10
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-2)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-2)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks:[Poison? [DC10, 1d2 Str]?]
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +12, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +5
Feats: Endurance, Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, pack (3-12) or flock (10-60) or swarm (see below)
Challenge Rating: 1/8 [CR 1/4 with poison?]
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

The above represents a juvenile Coelophysis aged about a year or less. The same stats could be used in a pinch for other tiny-sized lightweight theropods such as Procompsognathus from the Late Triassic (220-210 MYA) or Compsognathus from the Late Jurassic (150 MYA). However, while Procompsognathus is likely to be a Coelophysoid, Compsognathus is not, being a Coelurosaur. It probably deserves somewhat tweaked stats, as given below.

A typical juvenile Coelophysis is 4-5 feet long and weighs 5-6 pounds or so.

Coelophysis Swarm
Late Triassic (210 MYA)
Tiny Animal (Swarm)
Hit Dice: 9d8 (40 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +3 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/–
Attack: Swarm (2d6)
Full Attack: Swarm (2d6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Distraction [Poison [DC14, 1d6 Str]?]
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +11, Will +6
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +12, Listen +9, Spot +9, Survival +8
Feats: Lightning Reflexes, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Survival), Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, pack (3-12) or flock (10-60) or swarm (see below)
Challenge Rating: 4 [CR 5 with poison?]
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

A large number of infant Coelophysis flocking together for mutual protection and survival, they can strip a mid-sized prosauropod to the bone in a welter of little slashing teeth. Such a swarm can also be used for a flock of adult Procompsognathus as in the latter Jurassic Park films. Note that there is no scientific justification for hunting flocks of Procompsognathus, and although Coelophysis may have lived in flocks the fossilized groups were of a wide range of ages.

Combat
A Coelophysis swarm simply mobs any potential meal they see, fleeing if they suffer serious (25-50%) losses.

Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a Coelophysis swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 14 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

[Poison (Ex): If you choose to use the venomous Coelophysoid option, a Coelophysis swarm has a poisonous swarm-attack that does 1d6 Strength damage as both initial and secondary damage, with a DC14 Fortitude save. Coelophysis venom is painful and debilitating, but rarely fatal – assuming the dinosaurs don't eat you while you're helpless. The save DC is Constitution-based.

A venomous Coelophysis swarm has a Challenge Rating of 5 ?
]

Skills
A Coelophysis swarm has a +4 racial bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

Compsognathus
Late Jurassic (150-140 MYA)
Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½d8 (2 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 size, +4 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–10
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d3-3)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d3-3) and claws +6 melee (1d2-3)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 5, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +13, Listen +6, Spot +6, Survival +5
Feats: Run, Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1/8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

Compsognathus is an alert and (comparatively) intelligent little dinosaur with large eyes and a relatively big brain. It is particularly fond of eating lizards. They are lightweight and powerful for their size, making them incredibly fast animals.

A typical adult Compsognathus is about 4 feet long but only weighs 1 or 2 pounds.


Dilophosaurus
Early Jurassic (190-185 MYA)
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 6d8+18 (45 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+13
Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d8+5)
Full Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d8+5) and 2 claws +6 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 13, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +9, Listen +8, Spot +8, Survival +5
Feats: Multiattack, Weapon Focus (bite), Run(B), Track
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 7-12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment:

A Dilophosaurus is a predatory dinosaur with a very slim, lightweight build. It has two long curved crests along its snout.

An adult Dilophosaurus stands about 5-6 feet tall, with a total length of 15-20 feet and an average weight around 600 pounds. A particularly large individual may weigh half a ton.

Combat
A Dilophosaurus seeks to grab hold of an opponent and tear it apart with their claws and teeth. They usually hunt prey smaller than themselves, relying on their impressive speed to chase down prey and escape their enemies.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a
Dilophosaurus must hit with a claw or bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Skills
A Dilophosaurus has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.


Venomous Dilophosaurus (Fictional)
Early Jurassic (190-185 MYA)
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+2 plus poison) or spit +6 ranged touch (poison)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+2 plus poison) and 2 claws +4 melee (1d3+1) or spit +14 ranged touch (poison)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, poison, scare
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 12
Skills: Hide +8* [+16 in undergrowth], Intimidate +6, Listen +7, Move Silently +6, Spot +7, Survival +6
Feats: Multiattack, Ability Focus (poison), Track, Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 4-7 HD (Medium); 8-12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment:

A species of Dilophosaurus unknown to science, sometimes called Dilophosaurus nedryphagous by cryptozoologists ("Nedry-eating two-crested lizard"). As well as the twin curved head-crests of a regular Dilophosaurus, the venomous Dilophosaurus has an erectile ruff of skin supported by cartilaginous spines around the back of its head. This frill usually lies folded back against its neck, but the dinosaur can erect with great speed to startle or intimidate opponents with its bright patterns.

A typical venomous Dilophosaurus has a total length of 12 feet and weighs 120 pounds or so. They grow slowly throughout their adult live, so can reach twice that length and a weight of 1000 pounds.

Combat
A Dilophosaurus nedryphagous tries to stalk within spitting distance (literally!) of its prey and spit venom into their face, they then wait for their poison to take effect and try to eviscerate the blinded and weakened opponent. If threatened by an enemy of significant size they use their neck-frill in a bid to startle the enemy into hesitating in their attack, then spit in their face and flee, possibly returning to attack if their foe appears to be seriously poisoned.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Dilophosaurus must hit with a claw or bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Poison (Ex): A
venomous Dilophosaurus has poisonous spittle it uses to weaken and blind its prey.

Injury — bite, Fort DC16, initial and secondary damage 1d6 Str.

Spit — ranged touch, Fort DC16, initial damage dazzled for 2d4 minutes, secondary damage 1d4 Strength and blindness for 2d4 minutes.

Scare (Ex): As a move-equivalent action, a Dilophosaurus
nedryphagous can erect its frill and shriek, this alone is usually sufficient to scare away foes or cause them to hesitate in their attacks (treat as a Intimidate check with a +6 bonus, including a +4 racial bonus).

As a standard action, the Dilophosaurus can focus this unsettling display on a single creature within 40 feet, producing an effect that resembles a cause fear spell from a 4th-level caster (Will DC 13 partial). Creatures with more Hit Dice than the Dilophosaurus are immune to this effect, as are other
Dilophosaurus nedryphagous. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, it is shaken for 1 round, if it fails it is frightened for 1d4+1 rounds.

A creature that successfully saves against a venomous
Dilophosaurus's scare ability cannot be affected again by the same dinosaur for 24 hours.

This is a mind-affecting fear effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Skills
A venomous Dilophosaurus has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

*Its racial bonus to Hide increases to +12 in thick undergrowth.
 
Last edited:

Cleon

Legend
Spinosaurus

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Middle Cretaceous (115-95 MYA)
Gargantuan Animal
Hit Dice: 20d8+120 (210 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–4 size, +2 Dex, +10 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+37
Attack: Bite +22 melee (3d6+10/19-20) or claw +22 melee (2d6+5)
Full Attack: Bite +22 melee (3d6+10/19-20) and 2 claws +20 melee (2d6+5)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +14, Will +8
Abilities: Str 31, Dex 15, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +4*, Listen +11, Spot +11, Survival +9
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (bite), Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (claw), Weapon Focus (bite), Track
Environment: Warm plains or swamps
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 21–30 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment:

A Spinosaurus is slim for a theropod and has unusually long, narrow jaws. It has fairly large forearms with 3 fingered hands.

This dinosaur is an swift moving, opportunistic predator that hunts small prey such as fish, juvenile dinosaurs and even pterosaurs. Its lightweight build and narrow jaws mean its ill-equipped for preying upon big creatures, but its Gargantuan size means there are many victims small enough for it to hunt.

A typical adult Spinosaurus has a total length from 50 to 60 feet and weighs between 8 and 10 tons.

Combat
A Spinosaurus seeks to grab hold of an opponent and tear it apart with their claws and teeth. They usually hunt prey smaller than themselves.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Spinosaurus must hit with a claw or bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Skills
A Spinosaurus has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.
 

hamishspence

Adventurer
Giant sea reptiles

The main evidence for Pliosaurus macromerus growing to 18 m is one single 3 m lower jaw mandible at the Oxford museum. And there is also Predator X, and a few others, at around 15 m

Hainosaurus growing to 17 m I've seen a lot of times.

Mauisaurus (a long-necked plesiosaur) growing to 20 m I've seen references to, but not much evidence.

Tylosaurus and Mosasaurus both seem to come in at around 15 m, but Mosasaurus is described as much more solidly built, with a stronger, more rigid skull not designed for swallowing large prey whole.

Since we seem to have switched away from the lengths and weights given in PHB- to a system based on Space, rather than nose to base of tail, I see no problem with a basic Shonisaurus having a 30 ft space, 20 ft bite reach, 20 ft tail slap- 70 ft overall.

The Coelophysoid stats look good, as do the spinosaur stats. The Dilophosaur stats can probably be used for any large, slender carnosaur- from Gojirasaurus (a true coelophysoid) to Elaphrosaurus (a ceratosaur)
 

Cleon

Legend
The Coelophysoid stats look good, as do the spinosaur stats. The Dilophosaur stats can probably be used for any large, slender carnosaur- from Gojirasaurus (a true coelophysoid) to Elaphrosaurus (a ceratosaur)

Ta.

I'm not 100% happy with the Spinosaurus aegyptiacus. Although its size says Gargantuan, it's basically got the stats of a "Huge-and-a-half" sized Theropod since it's a lot lighter than most Gargantuan monsters. I also wanted it to be roughly equivalent combat-wise to my Tyrannosaurus Redux, whose stats I feel are representative of a rather large (40 foot?) example of the genus and hence could also be viewed as midway between Huge and Gargantuan (or Enormous according to my suggested scheme for intermediary size steps).

Problem is, 31 Strength is a bit low for a beast of such size. I originally gave it Str 35, but crunching the numbers it did a lot more damage full-attacking than the Tyrannosaurus since it has the two claw attacks. Even with Str 31 it averages a lot more damage if all its attacks hit (7d6+20 versus the Rex's 3d8+18).

I'm considering giving the Rex some kind of "bone-crushing bite" SA that does increased damage to a grappled foe. Probably something like 6d8+24, then I would feel OK with giving old Spiny Str 35.

Another thing I was thinking of was cutting the Spiny's claw attacks to 1d8 damage (probably boosting the Str as well).

Which could make it something like:

Enormous Tyrannosaurus: Str 34, 3d8+18 bite (6d8+24 crushing bite?)
Gargantuan Spinosaurus: Str 35, 3d6+12 bite, Two 1d8+6 claws. (3d6+2d8+24)

Having decided on it yet.
 

hamishspence

Adventurer
Remember that just because Spiny is long, doesn't mean he is especially big, bulk-wise- so he can have a fairly low Str- maybe check other gargantuan creatures?

Tyrannosaurs might be a better candidate for Long Reach than other theropods- since they have proportionally longer legs and shorter tails.

The 10 ft reach tyrannosaur could be Daspletosaurus, Tarbosaurus, and the like, with Tyrannosaurus rex getting a slight reach boost to 15 ft.

Reach boosts might make the differences, allowing you to represent something that is Enormous- bigger reach than other Huge creatures.

It would run something like:
16-25 ft dinosaur- 10 ft space, 5 ft reach (Large)
25-30 ft dinosaur- 10 ft space, 10 ft reach (larger)
30-35 ft dinosaur- 15 ft space, 10 ft reach (Huge)
35-45 ft dinosaur- 15 ft space, 15 ft reach (enormous)
45-55 ft dinosaur- 20 ft space, 15 ft reach (Gargantuan)
55-65 ft dinosaur- 20 ft space, 20 ft reach (titanic)
65-75 ft dinosaur- 30 ft space, 20 ft reach (Colossal)

etc. This primarily for theropods- not that there are any Colossal ones as far as we know.


Bone-crushing bite- Dragon gave it's Giganotosaurus the ability to inflict 2 points of CON damage with every bite- and this has been used by other homebrewers in statting T. rex.

(also- Dilophosaurus has the word Megaraptor in its Improved Grab description- but that is easy to fix.)
 
Last edited:

Cleon

Legend
Remember that just because Spiny is long, doesn't mean he is especially big, bulk-wise- so he can have a fairly low Str- maybe check other gargantuan creatures?

No need to remind me, 'cause I already knew.

Str 30 is a bit low for a Gargantuan Animal. e.g. the Gargantuan SRD Triceratops would be Str 38, a Tyrannosaurus Str 35 (or Str 42 for my Redux version), a Giant Squid Str 34, a Gargantuan Whale Str 35.

Or think of it this way, if you shrunk it down to Medium old Spiny would be Strength 6. Now as I said earlier I cheated a bit and built it as an "Enormous critter" (+20 Str instead of a Gargantuan's +24), so it it based on Str 10, but it still don't feel quite right to me.

Tyrannosaurs might be a better candidate for Long Reach than other theropods- since they have proportionally longer legs and shorter tails.

The 10 ft reach tyrannosaur could be Daspletosaurus, Tarbosaurus, and the like, with Tyrannosaurus rex getting a slight reach boost to 15 ft.

Reach boosts might make the differences, allowing you to represent something that is Enormous- bigger reach than other Huge creatures.

It would run something like:
16-25 ft dinosaur- 10 ft space, 5 ft reach (Large)
25-30 ft dinosaur- 10 ft space, 10 ft reach (larger)
30-35 ft dinosaur- 15 ft space, 10 ft reach (Huge)
35-45 ft dinosaur- 15 ft space, 15 ft reach (enormous)
45-55 ft dinosaur- 20 ft space, 15 ft reach (Gargantuan)
55-65 ft dinosaur- 20 ft space, 20 ft reach (titanic)
65-75 ft dinosaur- 30 ft space, 20 ft reach (Colossal)

I was wondering how long it would take you to put your preference for switching between Short & Long reaches into my proposed size scheme, I'd noticed it was a pretty neat fit.:)

Bone-crushing bite- Dragon gave it's Giganotosaurus the ability to inflict 2 points of CON damage with every bite- and this has been used by other homebrewers in statting T. rex.

Yes, I've seen versions of that around various fora but I'm not that enamored of it. Apart from it being rather fiddly as far as bookkeeping goes, it implies its damaging its opponent's overall health like a poison rather than just straightforward wound-shock. Plus, 2 Con isn't that much, so it would probably be killing its target by hit point loss anyway it just seems easier having a special attack that does more hp damage and cut out the middleman, so to speak.

Although I am wondering about having it do Strength damage, to represent it ripping muscle and crushing bone.

(also- Dilophosaurus has the word Megaraptor in its Improved Grab description- but that is easy to fix.)

EDIT-click-click-click-SAVE

What Megaraptor? I don't see no Megaraptor, you must have imagined it.:p
 

hamishspence

Adventurer
There may be other ways- still- I like it because it makes the size graduation more continuous and less jumpy.

On Con damage as bone-and-muscle crunching- Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, has a similar effect, for one of the Stone Dragon manuevers. Though Dragon Magazine did it first- much weaker though. The Stone Dragon manuever does 2d6 Con damage- nasty.

The MM2 Gargantuan Megalodon has a Str of 31.
 

Cleon

Legend
There may be other ways- still- I like it because it makes the size graduation more continuous and less jumpy.

Well, you may bring me around eventually.:)

On Con damage as bone-and-muscle crunching- Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, has a similar effect, for one of the Stone Dragon manuevers. Though Dragon Magazine did it first- much weaker though. The Stone Dragon manuever does 2d6 Con damage- nasty.

Yes, that's more the level of ability damage I was thinking of, except I still favour Str over Con. Probably give it a Fortitude save (Strength based?) to avoid the ability damage.

The MM2 Gargantuan Megalodon has a Str of 31.

Yes, but sharks are rather pathetic in 3E, a Huge Shark (i.e. a 20 foot long Great White) only has Str 21, which is distinctly unimpressive for a 4000+ pound animal. They also follow the Monstrous Vermin approach of half-valuing the normal size advancement - the Large shark is Str 17, the Medium shark Str 13. If they gave them the full +8 Str per category a Huge shark would have Str 29 and a 2d6+13 bite, which seems more appropriate.
 

Remove ads

Top