D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Hussar]

And those of us who like the design of 5e have been told for years its not good... its a fluke, successful in spite of it's design as opposed to because of it... what exactly equates to being in the tent since all editions have their detractors?

Meh.

Not really.

Other than a tiny handful of folks with an axe to grind, virtually no one says that. Good grief two years of One DnD, and again outside of a very small number of people, everyone is pretty content.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not my favorite either, but my favorite beer of all time is Aecht-Schlenkerla's Märzen, which is a cross between a rauchbier and a märzen, so I'm not sure that I'm representative of anything.

I don't really have a favorite beer but the shirt list would be Kilkenny, an NZ hopped pilsner and one of the Eastern European lagers.

Kinda like D&D I had a short list of 3 editions but i think one has crept ahead.

 

[Imaro]

Meh.

Not really.

Other than a tiny handful of folks with an axe to grind, virtually no one says that. Good grief two years of One DnD, and again outside of a very small number of people, everyone is pretty content.

Your bias is showing. I see it numerous times either explicitly or implicitly stated regularly on this forum... much more than I see 4e talked about outside of 4e threads.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There was that crowd, but you missed the other major POV, that 2e was almost pathetically anemic in it's modernization of the game. Many of us questioned the worth of such a shallow and largely cosmetic update. Granting it's a cleanup and we did buy it! Yet our AD&D play became much less frequent and the perception was that the game was pretty retro and there was better stuff out there to play. TSR's decline started right about then.

I always saw 2e as a fantastic font of new material (which is what it was) that I could use as I saw fit without having to give up on the 1e core our group had been using the whole time. 2e was win-win for me, the Golden Age of D&D. From my perspective the reboot of 3e was the beginning of the end.

 

[Hussar]

Your bias is showing. I see it numerous times either explicitly or implicitly stated regularly on this forum... much more than I see 4e talked about outside of 4e threads.

Really? You’ve seen 5e conversations become so vitriolic that particular topics get banished to their own sub forum?

Gimme a break.

 

[niklinna]

Meh.

Not really.

Other than a tiny handful of folks with an axe to grind, virtually no one says that. Good grief two years of One DnD, and again outside of a very small number of people, everyone is pretty content.

Most of the high-level "criticism" I've heard about 5e is along the lines of "It's very good at meeting its design goals, but those aren't (always) what I want." A number of the posters I can think of even play 5e regularly and quite enjoy it for what it is—but they also recognize what it is not, and do not try to claim that 5e, big a tent as it may be, can actually be all things to everyone when it comes to RPGs.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think part if the problem is even now a lot of 4E fans imply that you're wrong for not liking 4E.

People hate 4E for a reason. And that's perfectly fine. If you want to douse a 5E Handbook in lighter fluid knock yourself out.

Doesn't bother me if you don't like any edition of D&D. It's a problem when you choose one edition and narrowly define that 1edition as better than the rest though.

If you're that narrowly focused on what makes good D&D then yes you're going to miss out.

Point to who is doing that.

 

[payn]

Most of the high-level "criticism" I've heard about 5e is along the lines of "It's very good at meeting its design goals, but those aren't (always) what I want." A number of the posters I can think of even play 5e regularly and quite enjoy it for what it is—but they also recognize what it is not, and do not try to claim that 5e, big a tent as it may be, can actually be all things to everyone when it comes to RPGs.

I always joke about 5E being everyone's second favorite edition (yes its a joke and not serious no need to storm in and tell me its your #1). After launch and all this time most opinions seem to be its fine, but not exciting to play. Nobody loves it, but nobody out right hates it either (also no need to storm in and tell me you hate 5E). When 3E and 4E diehards are not completely satisfied I think you have reached a good spot.

 

[Parmandur]

Nobody loves it

I mean, I know thwt you were going for hyperbole, but...that part is not true. I loved 3E, but after playing 5E I could never play it again, no exaggeration. 5E has a lot of straight-up love going for it, for a lot of people.

 

[niklinna]

I mean, I know thwt you were going for hyperbole, but...that part is not true. I loved 3E, but after playing 5E I could never play it again, no exaggeration. 5E has a lot of straight-up love going for it, for a lot of people.

5E doesn't really speak to me (I have never liked the spell system of any version of D&D, nor most of the classes), but I did play both 3E and 5E, and to me 5E is a vast improvement. Even with my dislikes, there are a couple subclasses I would probably enjoy giving a spin: Scribes Wizard, Rune Knight Fighter, Stars/Wildfire Druid. I am so done with playing RPGs online though, and finding an in-person group these days that can coordinate is a tall order.