You hate "munchkin"? Here's the term *I* hate!

[Valicor]

From my experience the two sides just don't work together. One has there style and the other has is style. The two sit at a table they and play. Then you get the role player complain when its a boreing dungeon, and when its diplomacy time you get the roll player anxious and itching for a fight.

Now I am not saying most people are like this. In fact alot of people are not this way. Its just the people who enjoy a mix of both types do not seem to speak out about it as much. Why si that you ask? Because we those who enjoy both are there to have fun and not judge those around the table. If both extremes would drop the pre-concived notions about the other we would not have as many of these arguments.

 

[dagger]

Amen Psion!

SNIP

 

[Simon Magalis]

Point 1: I hate word police.

Point 2: There ARE often two types of gamers, and the two terms in question are pretty accurate at describing them. Sure, there are very few people on this site who don't give their characters names and view them as a piece on a Stratego board, but I have seen many many many many many many gamers who are EXACTLY like that, and when you try to indtroduce ANY sort of idea of character into such a group and get a Beavis and Butthead sort of reaction, then you have indeed encountered "rollplaying". Hate it or not, the term makes sense.

 

[Weeble]

Why label?

My little brother (9 years old) plays with his friends in what others would call a "munchkin" game (Dragons are pets of their level 5 characters - and their level 5 characters have over 75 hit points). I never use the term munchkin. In fact, I don't label any game...

...you see, whether your level 5 character is the king of the City of Cloud Giants, or you are playing a more 'realistic' (is that possible?) character made by strictly following the rules, it doesn't matter what anyone else calls it --- as long as those participating are having fun.

When my brother tells me about slaying a dragon with his level 5 wizard, I smile and remember when I played my first dnd game and how much fun it was.

Ahh, now this is what D&D is all about. Everyone having fun with the game HOWEVER they want to.

 

[Maldur]

I dislike the terms Newbie and/or n00b. But you dont hear me bitchin about it.

Dice are a part of RPG but if you get more characterisation in a game of Monopoly your in trouble

 

[Dinkeldog]

I had to quote the whole thing that Psion wrote.

Please read it again, since many people who normally read the whole thing and understand the point seem to have missed it entirely.

As for my fuel on the fire: I think people who use the term 'roll-player' only want to play angst-ridden Vampire paladins.

Some people have said how they dislike the term munchkin, as it typically has little meaning beyond "people who play in a style I don't like." Fair enough, but I think that some people perceive it in the same sense that I do (i.e., someone who sacrifices character concept, beleivability, and teamwork to optimize the character in survival situations).

Now for my pet peeve:

Roll-player.

Gak! How I hate that term. It's thoroughly stupid. First off, people who use it think they are being oh-so-clever by invocing a homonymn, when in reality it strikes me as about as clever as country music lyrics like "I'm in luv with a capital you..."

Further, rolling the dice is a perfectly pedestrian activity for RPGs in general and D&D in particular. For those who play in a somewhat simulationist style, the system is the eyes and ears of the players and rolling the dice is something that happens a lot -- and has ZERO impact on roleplaying. None. But whenever I see "roll-play", I seethe, bucause it implies that because I resolve things by rolling dice, we aren't role-playing. What a pile of crap! By making the chances of success representative of a characters ability vice how much of a drama queen the player is, you are better approximating the role you are portraying!

It is perfectly 100% possible to integrate role-playing and rolling the dice. Especially in the d20 system. Just use the GMs impressions of how beleivable the portrayal is and use that as a modifier to the dice roll.

I finally got d20 CoC, a game that I daresay is a bit more roleplay oriented than D&D. I found it extremely interesting the way that the bluff check modifiers seem to encourage this sort of play. Hmmm.

 

[Darklone]

Here are a few words I hate: Computer Role Playing Game.

 

[LostSoul]

I can see the beginnings of a (currently very flawed) solution as far as INT and WIS go, at least - replace them with something like Magical Aptitude, and Divine Aptitude, and divorce them from their definition of mental ability - leave that to the player's choice.

I think that's a cool idea.

By the way, I didn't get the impression that Duncan was very wise...

 

[Tom Cashel]

Re: Re: You hate "munchkin"? Here's the term *I* hate!

I had to quote the whole thing that Psion wrote.

Please read it again, since many people who normally read the whole thing and understand the point seem to have missed it entirely.

I don't use "roll-player" as a perjorative. Am I to think that Psion considers me a "drama queen" because I make my players speak in character whenever possible?

Despite Psion's specious argument about how you role-play better when you use only dice to simulate social interaction, the word role-playing means "playing a role." Obvious? Apparently not, given the existence of this thread!

Role-playing and roll-playing are not different sides...they are two aspects of the same game. As Grant Morrison points out in The Invisibles, "There is no war. There are no sides. There is only the game."

You can be a Master Thespian at the gaming table, but without a decent Bluff or Diplomacy check to go along with it, it's worthless. By the same token, you can have 72 ranks in Innuendo, but as DM I'm still going to make you try, just a little bit, to role-play the situation before you roll dice.

Please read it again, since many people who normally read the whole thing and understand the point seem to have missed it entirely.

"There is no war. There are no sides. There is only the game."

 

[Shimrod]

Here are a few words I hate: Computer Role Playing Game.

contradictio in terminiis