D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

[ECMO3]

The Monk should just get its own version of Cunning Action, tbh. Make Step of the Wind into a free combination Move/Disengage, which might actually be worth a proper Ki point. Turn Patient Defense into something interesting, like maybe a reaction attack against a miss while Dodging for a ki point.

I am generally against that. I think the Monk has everything they need right now and giving them more will make them OP at high levels.

Really, let's stop having the Monk pay for stuff a second level Rogue gets for free.

A Rogue does not get extra attack, stunning strike, ability bonus added to offhand attacks (not to mention being able to use a higher damage weapon and get a bonus action attack), ability to substitute martial arts dice for weapon damage, slow fall or most importantly diamond soul.

As a base class, Monk is substantially better than a base Rogue at combat at most levels. An Arcane Trickster gets some stuff that evens it up against a lot of Monk subclasses, but then a Long Death Monk gets some quite nice features too and would put Monks back on top.

Also while Monks are a weak class in teir 2, giving them the ability to do what "Rogues do for free" in tier 2 would make them way overpowered at high levels when they have an abundance of ki and would not have to spend any on doing that.

I think the best way for a Monk to get cunning action is a 2-level dip in Rogue, but if you want to buff the Monk in tier 2 the best way to do it is give them more ki early. Instead of 1 ki a level, make it 4 at level 2, 6 at level 4, 8 at level 6, 9 at level 8 and then go on with the amount they currently get after that. That will largely eliminate the "running out of ki" problem.

Another thing that would help the Monk is make Glaives and Longswords Monk weapons as these are iconic martial arts weapons (or the DND weapon class for those weapons). Also make whip a Monk weapon. When I play a Monk I usually try to get Whip proficiency somehow.

No one likes getting hit, period, especially given how easy it typically is to tag someone in 5E given bounded accuracy.

That is why dash is such a better option than disengage. If you dash you take 1 AOO but usually no attacks at all on the enemies turn (and most enemies have multi attack). This is particularly true when you are fighting something that has Legendary action attacks. Take the AOO but take away their other attacks!

Edit: If you want to make the Monk less MAD, you could probably replace the Wisdom part of their AC with just a flat bonus based on level. I was thinking Proficiency, but that's a bit lower than I'd like. Maybe a 3+/4+/5+, dolled out every 6-7 levels.

Unless you refocus the DC for the ki abilities that will not make them less MAD. A Monk who does not stay on the Wisdom ladder loses a lot of power because their Ki DC are not great, this is particularly true because their signature ability is on a constitution save. A 9th level Monk with a 17 DC, 17 AC and +3 attack stat is much more capable than a 9th level Monk with a 15DC, 19 AC and +5 attack stat.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't think HP-as-Meat is a reason 5e hasn't seen the warlord yet. 5e's OK with the general principle of nonmagical healing. It might need to walk carefully, but it's not verboten.

HP as meat is just a general restriction on mundane characters in general.

The aversion to interesting tactical combat, complexity in anything that isn't a caster, and creating new classes just At All are the culprits in keeping us form having a warlord.

Also 'but we have warlords at home'.

 

[Undrave]

Again. You don't have to use it. If you think it is stupid, don't use it.

I'm not! I don't want to play a Monk ever again because it sucks.

 

[Staffan]

To say it's always meat is as wrong as to say that it's never meat.

The only hp explanation that makes sense in D&D is that hp is Aura.

And maybe release a Warden subclass for the Barbarian

I think the Oath of the Ancients paladin is supposed to scratch the Warden itch. I'm not saying it's any good at it ("We have Warden at home"), but I think that's what they were going for.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm not! I don't want to play a Monk ever again because it sucks.

So don't. But don't tell people they are stupid if they do. There are people who don't think it sucks. Your tone is very dismissive.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The only hp explanation that makes sense in D&D is that hp is Aura.

I miss when that show was good

 

[Undrave]

I think the Oath of the Ancients paladin is supposed to scratch the Warden itch. I'm not saying it's any good at it ("We have Warden at home"), but I think that's what they were going for.

It doesn't even transform. I think Guardian of Nature was actually the spell that was meant to replace the ENTIRE Warden class... and it's a bloody 4th level spell that only covers two Spirits. That's level 13 for a Ranger to badly pretend to be a Warden.

I think it fits the Barbarian way better by having you choose from various options when you Rage, turning into incarnations of various Primal Spirits. Each one could give you a few new passive and a new at-will option or on-hit bonus. Add a few rituals like the Totem Barbarian and Bob's your uncle! Basically the Totem Barbarian but it's for natural phenomena instead like Winter, Harvest, Earthquakes, that sort of more abstract concepts.

So don't. But don't tell people they are stupid if they do. There are people who don't think it sucks. Your tone is very dismissive.

Great that you're having fun with the Monk. Doesn't make it any less of a subpar design that doesn't know what it wants to be.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The warlord class shouldn't be a simple cheeleader with armour. Even each subclass should show its own identity.

If you want a "not magic but almost" healing, then I advice to recover the maneuvers of the White Raven school from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords".

A true warlord can't be in a squad what is smaller than the harem from some isekai anime.

Even the buffer class features were useful and rightly-balanced, the gameplay has to be fun for the player.

Maybe the designers create a warlord class, but then lots of players would rather the subclasses focused into monster allies.

* What if the warlord was designed for a future D&D skirmishes miniature game style "Mordheim"? And played with the D&D-B VTT.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Great that you're having fun with the Monk. Doesn't make it any less of a subpar design that doesn't know what it wants to be.

I have seen, you changed your first post. From calling players stupid to stupid design. Now you go to subpar design.

If you go back and read my post, I do agree that there is room for improvement (read as: a little bit subpar). But every monk I have seen up to level 10 worked well enough.

My problem is that people are white rooming a lot and some issues that are obvious from a design perspective don't cause too much problems in actual play. 10% less damage in a team game does not matter. Receiving 10% more damage also does not. My experience is that normal 5e play is quite forgiving for slightly subpar characters.

Most people play ot for the story, not to be a death's door every encounter.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The only hp explanation that makes sense in D&D is that hp is Aura.


I think the Oath of the Ancients paladin is supposed to scratch the Warden itch. I'm not saying it's any good at it ("We have Warden at home"), but I think that's what they were going for.

There's a great Warden class in Mage Hand Press's Valda's Spire of Secrets. Lots of other classes too.