D&D General Who “owns” a PC after the player stops using them?

[Thomas Shey]

So are D&D 5e home games that use IPs that aren't officially adapted to the 5e ruleset (Star Wars, Avatar: the Last Airbender, Marvel Comics, etc.) illegal?!

I mean, you realise how ridiculous that sounds, right?

They're probably technically correct. IP law is pretty dumb, honestly.

What it ignores is the practical reality which is 1. WOTC finds out, 2. WOTC cares, 3. WOTC takes you to court (or even issues a C&D) and 4. A judge doesn't tell them to quit being ridiculous.

I can tell you why they're saying this: Copyright protects commercial use and no company was mad enough to try and sue people when they scribbled Spider-Man on their drawing practice notebook. People can and do use IPs for their homegames without permission from that IP all the time, and the idea that IP law would somehow extend into people's private creations is just as ridiculous as it is unenforceable.

Noncommercial violations can and have been successfully sued. Its just a dumb usage beyond any function copyright is intended to cover and even the courts usually show that. But as usual there's some "power to indict is the power to destroy" elements present. But I've never heard a reference of it being even attempted, let alone successfully in an entirely private situation.

 

[Yaarel]

They do when they distribute them in some way such as on the internet. Without doing that, there's little likelihood of the IP holder ever being aware of the setting.

Sure, but "unaware of illegal activity" is hardly the same thing as legal activity.

Besides, when much of a game is inherently online, the concerns about "distribution" widen.

 

[Ondath]

You seem unaware of the laws. Or events.

For example, people create fandom settings for D&D, such as from the IP of videogames. These fans can and sometimes do get legal cease-and-desists.

People get those letters when they publish copyright-infringing work, yes. But who the hell is going to stop me from establishing rules for element bending for my 5e game that only people in my home D&D game can see? How could Viacom even know that their copyright is being infringed?

I am talking about noncommercial, non-public TTRPG games. I mean, one of the many lawyers in the forums could correct me if I'm wrong, but I just don't see how that kind of use of IP could ever be limited, let alone be legally wrong.

 

[Schmoe]

I assume Marvel has a fan policy, a legal contract, that allows you tell bedtime stories about Spiderman.

So you're saying that, if they do not, I should not tell my son Spiderman bedtime stories? Do I need to verify that IP rights holders have a fan policy before I tell a bedtime story regarding that IP?

 

[Thomas Shey]

I am talking about noncommercial, non-public TTRPG games. I mean, one of the many lawyers in the forums could correct me if I'm wrong, but I just don't see how that kind of use of IP could ever be limited, let alone be legally wrong.

Just a note; there are some issues that can come up here involving the lines between copyright and trademark violations. The latter has a number of potential violation cases that the former doesn't, so you need to watch for that.

 

[Yaarel]

People get those letters when they publish copyright-infringing work, yes. But who the hell is going to stop me from establishing rules for element bending for my 5e game that only people in my home D&D game can see? How could Viacom even know that their copyright is being infringed?

I am talking about noncommercial, non-public TTRPG games. I mean, one of the many lawyers in the forums could correct me if I'm wrong, but I just don't see how that kind of use of IP could ever be limited, let alone be legally wrong.

My point is "noncommercial" doesnt help. It may or may not matter when determining how much monetary damage the IP theft causes.

 

[Maxperson]

Actually, you cant create a Darth Vader character without permission. I assume Disney has some kind of fandom policy, which gives you permission, but you would need to know its details.


If you misuse Disney IP, and without permission, and without fair use, Disney has the prerogative to sue you.

In what way had Disney been damaged by the use of Darth Vader in my home game?

 

[TwoSix]

I assume Marvel has a fan policy, a legal contract, that allows you tell bedtime stories about Spiderman.

I think the larger point is that even if Marvel was in legal opposition to Spider-Man bedtime stories, and actually tried to enforce that, that enforcement would be unethical to the point of being dystopian.

Something being legal doesn't make it RIGHT. (CG alignment in the house!)

 

[Ondath]

They're probably technically correct. IP law is pretty dumb, honestly.

What it ignores is the practical reality which is 1. WOTC finds out, 2. WOTC cares, 3. WOTC takes you to court (or even issues a C&D) and 4. A judge doesn't tell them to quit being ridiculous.

There is also the fact that TTRPG is an international hobby. I'm currently living in Switzerland. Sure, theoretically American copyright law may allow WotC to sue me for infringing on their copyright by, I don't know, running an extremely erotic Greyhawk game using FATE rules. But does Swiss law allow that? Does Turkish law? French law?

More importantly, I was trying to make a common sense point about using a friend's character in your own game world. The common sense response to "I'm running 5e and just pitted my players against Darth Vader" isn't "Dude, you need to get a license from Disney to have Darth Vader appear in your game!", it's "Sick, bro. I want to pit my players against Godzilla soon." Similarly, when I get inspired by a friend's character in another game and put them as an NPC in my (separate) game, the common sense respond wouldn't be the indignation some people are claiming here.

 

[Ondath]

My point is "noncommercial" doesnt help. It may or may not matter when determining how much monetary damage the IP theft causes.

You're missing the point by focusing on the noncommercial part. The important part is non-public. We're talking about home games that people play with their friends.