D&D General Which was your favourite Forgotten Realms Cosmology?

[Aldarc]

Where does the term "Axis" come from? Regardless, I love this, very nice. I'd love to see this come back for sure.

Let's consult our friend, the 4e Manual of the Planes (p. 12):

The World Axis cosmology is so named because the mortal world and its parallel planes form an axis or pivot point linking the two great infinite planes—the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. The world is therefore the fulcrum where elemental forces and divine forces meet. This model provides a mix of benign, strange, wondrous, and sinister planes you can use in your game without the necessity of designing your own unique cosmology.

 

[Scars Unseen]

But point is I don’t think you have to think about how the players will exist and live on these planes and how to populate them with features as much as you can just focus on one place in the plane and that’s where the PCs end up, a la the City of Brass in the Plane of Fire. Maybe the Plane of Air is the Sky Tower of the Wind Dukes of Aaqa, or a graveyard of lost ships from across all the multiverse floating in the Plane of Water.

Alternatively, you can think a lot about how players can live and exist and live on these planes. Like, the plane of air, are you just falling constantly? Is there a terminal velocity, or are you just accelerating forever until you eventually break up and or get ejected into a neighboring quasi/para-elemental plane? There likely isn't a gravitational "center," or it would have long since become a plane of not-air from the accumulation, but perhaps there are local centers of gravity that shift and change, and part of the challenge is predicting where safe zones are and how long they are likely to remain before breaking up and dispersing to newly created accumulation points.

The plane of water is probably the most survivable since there is already magic to deal with the breathing problem, but again, you have to wonder about how atmospheric pressure works in an infinite plane of water. Is it crushing depth everywhere? Does the pressure change depending on where you are in the plane? Do ocean-like currents exist in a plane without wind? As EzekielRaiden mentioned, the food chain, if it exists, is likely to be completely different from what we would expect in waters on the prime due to a lack of a real "bottom," but the waste from native life has to go somewhere, so there would still likely be some predictable sort of pattern to life there.

Fire is an interesting one because even fire-protection magic isn't really sufficient to deal with a plane where it's not so much that everything is on fire as it is that everything is fire. Water is instantly evaporated. Air is instantly consumed. The same goes for food. Existing as a mortal being just isn't possible without extreme measures. The best approach would be to take on an elemental form of some sort, and then you can start worrying about how physics work in a plane where fire burns without a source because it is the source of all fire.

 

[TiQuinn]

Alternatively, you can think a lot about how players can live and exist and live on these planes. Like, the plane of air, are you just falling constantly? Is there a terminal velocity, or are you just accelerating forever until you eventually break up and or get ejected into a neighboring quasi/para-elemental plane?

I think it’s a fine line between making it interesting with different physics and effects and making those places viable as adventure locations. I think this is where D&D pre-Planescape kind of failed. I felt like I was not supposed to go there as a player or DM because the PCs would be instantly destroyed unless they went through torturous methods to stay alive. So yeah, I think I’d want some of that danger but not so much that the players are thinking “that’s just a pain in the ass and why go there?”

 

[Mephista]

If this is the case, why do we need or even want entire infinite planes just to house one single location worth visiting?

Because DnD loves its overlap and repeats. The Nine Hells, Limbo, the Inner Plane are effectively three takes on the elemental planes idea.
The Feywild is just a combo of the NG and CG planes mixed together.
Hades, the plane of Shadow, Ravenloft were all different takes of the same concept until Shadowfell merged them, but then 5e brought Hades back.

Orcs and hobgoblins are just le vs ce versions of each other. same with bugbears and ogres.

So much overlap.

 

[Epic Meepo]

I find the argument that the World Axis cosmology is simpler and easier to remember than the OG Great Wheel cosmology somewhat baffling, because both cosmologies have almost the exact same number of moving parts.

In the World Axis, the multiverse is divided into three main regions: the Material Plane, the Elemental Chaos, and the Astral Sea. There are also two echoes of the Material Plane. The Elemental Chaos includes dozens of self-contained elemental realms, and the Astral Plane includes dozens of self-contained astral dominions.

In the OG Great Wheel, the multiverse is divided into three main regions: the Material Plane, the Inner Planes, and the Outer Planes. There are also two transitive planes which fill the spaces between things. The Inner Planes include a little over a dozen self-contained elemental planes, and the Outer Planes include dozens of self-contained aligned planes.

Arguing that the first of those two cosmologies is somehow simpler than the other is like arguing that a campaign setting with twelve countries on a single continent is somehow simpler than a campaign setting with twelve countries on twelve islands. Either way, you still have twelve countries to remember. All you did was change the mode of transportation needed to move between them.

 

[Mephista]

Where does the term "Axis" come from? Regardless, I love this, very nice. I'd love to see this come back for sure.

The Astral plane (thought) vs the Elemental Planes (materialism) is the y-axis, the Feywild (positive energy) and Shadowfell (negative energy) are the x-axis. The Material Plane is at the center (0, 0).

 

[Azzy]

That seems to be additions over time, then fully different cosmologies.

I feel that it's on the same level of difference as the 5e version from its predecessors.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Where does the term "Axis" come from? Regardless, I love this, very nice. I'd love to see this come back for sure.

There is an inherent axis to creation.

The Astral Sea is The Plane Above, from which concepts and forms arise. Timeless and idealized. It is the domain of the deities, living concepts, ideas so powerful they can shape the world around them.

The Elemental Chaos is The Plane Below, from which materiality and energy arise. Dynamic and explosive. It is the domain of the primordials, living forces, energetic modes so inexorable they draw existence behind them in their wake.

Originally, these two factions were separate, but then the gods proposed to the primordials the idea of creating a world together. The primordials thought that was a neat idea, so they collaborated. The gods provided planning, organization, teamwork, design. The primordials provided energy and raw material to bring those things to life. Together, they created a cosmos worth doing stuff in. They produced the World. But there were bits and pieces in the World that didn't quite fit. Some were too dark. Others were too bright. The darkness was cast aside, and became the Shadowfell, the deathly dark mirror of the World. The brightness was also cast aside, and it became the Feywild, the teeming magical mirror of the World.

Hence, there is an axis (Astral — World — Elemental) around which existence turns.

 

[Mephista]

I find the argument that the World Axis cosmology is simpler and easier to remember than the OG Great Wheel cosmology somewhat baffling, because both cosmologies have almost the exact same number of moving parts.

The difference is that Great Wheel has 17 outer planes, each with multiple layers, 18 inner planes, multiple demiplanes. Many of whom overlap. Very cluttered, and many planes rarely used.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I find the argument that the World Axis cosmology is simpler and easier to remember than the OG Great Wheel cosmology somewhat baffling, because both cosmologies have almost the exact same number of moving parts.

In the World Axis, the multiverse is divided into three main regions: the Material Plane, the Elemental Chaos, and the Astral Sea. There are also two echoes of the Material Plane. The Elemental Chaos includes dozens of self-contained elemental realms, and the Astral Plane includes dozens of self-contained astral dominions.

In the OG Great Wheel, the multiverse is divided into three main regions: the Material Plane, the Inner Planes, and the Outer Planes. There are also two transitive planes which fill the spaces between things. The Inner Planes include a little over a dozen self-contained elemental planes, and the Outer Planes include dozens of self-contained aligned planes.

Arguing that the first of those two cosmologies is somehow simpler than the other is like arguing that a campaign setting with twelve countries on a single continent is somehow simpler than a campaign setting with twelve countries on twelve islands. Either way, you still have twelve countries to remember. All you did was change the mode of transportation needed to move between them.

Pretending that astral dominions are in any way comparable to the 17 outer planes and 18 inner planes and 3 interstitial planes and 3 or 4 additional planes is just fundamentally disingenuous.

There are five planes (plus one un-place) in the World Axis. There are, particularly with 5e's kludgy insertion of 4e ideas like the Feywild, more than 40 in the Great Wheel. The Great Wheel puts ALL of those 40 planes on equal footing. The World Axis absolutely does not put Mount Celestia on the same footing as the entire World. Mount Celestia is at best one (small) region.

This would be like saying that a Forgotten Realms where Neverwinter, Waterdeep, Amn, Rashemen, and Calimshan are all infinitely-large Ravnica-style city-planes is in no sense more complex than the singular FR world. Of course it would be! Each of those places is an entire plane unto itself!