Where is my Freaking Mule?!

[bouncyhead]

Why not instead tell them "OK, you do that"? Why have a player sitting there flipping pages of a book?

Well if it's a 14th level Rogue, dripping in cash, I think 'Ok you do that' would be my response.

But if resources are scarce, and ekeing out those resources is part of the challenge in a 1st level, every silver piece counts kind of way, then it's useful to have all that detail there for reference. I don't want to have to rule on-the-fly through a shopping list of mundane gear.

And when it comes to what does what?

Player: Oh, and I'll buy a freaking mule to carry all this gear.
Me: No problem.
Player: How much can it carry? All the gear? How fast does it move?
Me: That's all in the book.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

While I am in general agreement with the "just wing it" advice, I got to ask - why is someone wanting a book of Mundane Items so appalling that you need to challenge someone's play-style or refer to them in words that would make Grandma blush?

Yeah, there's a lot of "badwrongfun" in this thread.

In a jokey thread I made a joke about we gamers being the behavioral A word that means "sticklers for detail." Get your mind out of the gutter young man!

 

[Drkfathr1]

But its so much more fun to be dirty!

 

[Obryn]

With no snark intended - I get that there are a lot of folks who want info on buying mules, iron pitons, and the like. I'm kind of confused why.

As for me, I don't know why I need it for 4e. I do know why I need it in 1e. 4e is not 1e, and I don't know that something that improves one game necessarily improves another. 4e basically hops right into "affluent heroes" mode, whereas 1e starts - and stays at - "barely competent and struggling wannabes" mode for many sessions. Also, equipment is a major point of mechanical differentiation for 1e - especially for 1st-level characters.

I have no problem narrating the effects of 10' poles, iron spikes, etc. I have no problem adapting Page 42ish stuff to them if necessary. I don't think I need a price list for things that cost a couple of copper. I also don't want extra rule systems. I don't want a table to tell me when a mule might run away from combat, or a pole's bonus for detecting traps. I have a solid foundational system in place, and I trust my judgment as a DM.

But my game is not your game. I don't doubt that it is important to your game, and I'd like to understand.

-O

 

[The Ghost]

In a jokey thread I made a joke about we gamers being the behavioral A word that means "sticklers for detail." Get your mind out of the gutter young man!

Fair enough. There just seems to be a lot of donkeys and mules in this thread!

 

[SkidAce]

Open your mind. Leave the 10-foot pole behind.

open-minded...check...leave the pole behind...never.

/grumble

they can have my pole when they pry it from my dead cold hands..

 

[Hussar]

While I am in general agreement with the "just wing it" advice, I got to ask - why is someone wanting a book of Mundane Items so appalling that you need to challenge someone's play-style or refer to them in words that would make Grandma blush?

Yes and no.

Sure, a book of mundane items is fine. Cool, whatever, no skin off my nose.

But, there's been a lot of pretty good advice that's been completely blown off as well. "Reskin a riding horse, 10 gp" is pretty good advice. "Ignore the problem, if it gets attacked, it's a minion. It can carry what's reasonable" is also pretty good advice.

What I don't understand is the need for this to be codified. How often does it really matter what the exact carrying capacity of a mule is? Do you really need the exact movement rates? Why?

It was the need to codify everything that resulted in 3e having many rules, usually spread across many books, that tried to cover every situation. I thought one of the main design priorities in 4e was to avoid this. 4e is about empowering DM's again, over the rules. Well, that comes at a price. If the DM has the power to determine things, then, well, the DM has to determine things.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What I don't understand is the need for this to be codified. How often does it really matter what the exact carrying capacity of a mule is? Do you really need the exact movement rates? Why?

It largely depends upon your playstyle. Some DMs don't like to "wing it"- and for a variety of reasons. I've also encountered many players who don't like it either.

One of the benefits of codification is that you can definitely toss the book with the info at the player with the query and say "Look it up in here." and then go on to more important matters.

Besides, you never know what is going to jump start the old imagination...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

BTW, we seem to have missed an important entry in our earlier cataloging of mule types -- we didn't cover the one in the OP's subject line!

I'm not 100% sure where the regular "freaking mule" is listed, but the epic tier version, with that super power to never let your spirits down and its reputation as the kind you don't take home to mother, is listed as the Rickjames Donkeyhorse.

Or possibly the Badtrip Donkeyhorse.

And while we're talking about certain animals in this game, what about the proverbial creatures from various sayings and stories, like Mudlurker Skyboars (flying pigs), the Doomspeaker Raptorling (Chicken Little) and Tentnosing Sandbeasts (the camel who gets his nose under the tent)?

Ohhhh...what about the Acephalous Velociraptorling?

 

[Zaran]

Yes and no.



But, there's been a lot of pretty good advice that's been completely blown off as well. "Reskin a riding horse, 10 gp" is pretty good advice. "Ignore the problem, if it gets attacked, it's a minion. It can carry what's reasonable" is also pretty good advice..

It's really not about the mule. Reskinning something seems to be the answer to everything that is missing from 4e. I want to know why the so called imperfect GM that can't handle having noncombat stuff drain the player's resources seems to be so skilled at reskinning stuff? Why can't the designers of the game put something out that is merely for roleplaying ? I also have to ask why some say that these so called useless items had a place in older editions but not in 4e? Seems to me information is power for the imagination and every bit of aid helps.

I might point out that in game sessions where combat isn't the focus, having to pull everything the players ask for out of thin air is alot of work, Also , a book of mundane stuff can give players ideas on what to spend their money on. What can they spend it on now? Well you can buy magical stuff and that's almost all you can buy. I might point out that a book of useless stuff would only be useless in combat. It would have great roleplaying uses. And the game still is a roleplaying game right?

For those of you who will come back and say that roleplayers don't need stuff out of a book to spend money on, but a book with sort of thing wouldn't be a wasted purchase.

I have to apologize about my lack of humor in the last few posts. I tried to keep the thread funny and I really enjoyed the donkeyhorse suggestions. Thanks.