What happens when you "identify" the glowing alter or magic room?

[BiggusGeekus]

Some adventures feature magic rooms or glowing alters, or other such things. These are generally set up as puzzles or traps. So in your game, what happens when the PC casts identify on the room that has a giant magic chess set (e.g. such as in the original harry potter book/movie) or on the alter that will zap you unless you speak the evil god's name? Are all of these tropes considered to be of artifact level status?

For the purposes of discussion, please do not weigh the fact that identify is a touch spell. The issue here is what the spell can be used on and the information received.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'd think if there was any sticking point, it would be that 60-minute casting time; it's been rare that I've been in a dungeon where we had that kind of time to waste. If you are exploring ancient ruins or something with no time pressure, then I see no reason why it would not give you some info at least.

I'd think it could be used as stated; any non-artifact-level magical thing.

 

[Celebrim]

Some adventures feature magic rooms or glowing alters, or other such things. These are generally set up as puzzles or traps. So in your game, what happens when the PC casts identify on the room that has a giant magic chess set (e.g. such as in the original harry potter book/movie) or on the alter that will zap you unless you speak the evil god's name? Are all of these tropes considered to be of artifact level status?

Good question. I would not think that they are all artifacts, lest artifacts be dime a dozen. Some of them might have defences against scrying, equivalent to requiring a caster level check, but if I hadn't built that into the device ahead of time, I wouldn't add it to thwart a quite sensible action by the player.

In the case of identify, they learn the basic function of the device (I use the 3.0 version). For example, they would learn that Harry Potter's chess set responds to verbal commands, or that the alter zaps you.

Analyze Dweomer on the other hand would give you the full functioning of the item just like it would with any other magical device. This would be a perfectly sensible approach to getting around a magical portal/altar/etc.

 

[Aeric]

Remember, too, that Identify assumes that you are closely analyzing the object in question; there are very few wizards who are going to sit there and get zapped by a glowing altar for an hour just to identify it.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Remember, too, that Identify assumes that you are closely analyzing the object in question; there are very few wizards who are going to sit there and get zapped by a glowing altar for an hour just to identify it.

See, the hour long requirement is really only applicable in some cases. I forget if a wand of identify might speed things up, but even if it didn't the DM can't impose time pressures for every single one of these things.

Celebrim,

Hmmmm. I like that ammount of information.

 

[Celebrim]

Celebrim,

Hmmmm. I like that ammount of information.

3.5 broke more things than it fixed.

 

[Vorput]

Remember, too, that Identify assumes that you are closely analyzing the object in question; there are very few wizards who are going to sit there and get zapped by a glowing altar for an hour just to identify it.

Does it? You DO have to touch it- but do you need to closely analyze it? The spell doesn't say...

I got into this argument with my DM when he said that in identifying a cursed helm, I needed to put the helm on- and thus suffer the curse. In a world where cursed items exist, particularly if you're identifying what may be a trap/altar- most Wizards are probably smart enough not to screw around with things until they know what they are (i.e. till after they're identified).

Vorp

 

[der_kluge]

I consider these things magic items, pure and simple.

A magic trap is probably a use-activated use-per-day, or maybe even a charged item.

It's too expensive to make most traps unlimited-use. For example - an amulet of the planes is an unlimited use item. You can use it indefinitely. Whereas, some items have a "3 times per day" limitation.

Most dungeon manufacturers assume that on an average day, maybe a handful of folks might enter a dungeon, and it only takes one to set off a trap to convince most people that maybe they shouldn't proceed further. Hence, creating a magic trap (utilizing the same rules for magic items) is cheaper if you go with something like 3/day.

 

[Celebrim]

I got into this argument with my DM when he said that in identifying a cursed helm, I needed to put the helm on- and thus suffer the curse.

Sounds like you were screwed. If an item must be used to be identified, what good is the spell? Does he insist you expend a charge from a wand in order to use identify, and if so why do you then need to cast the spell?

The whole point of identify is to give you some information about the item without having to use it.

The DM is within his rights to claim that 'closely analyze' means 'use', but that doesn't make it a good ruling.

 

[gizmo33]

Sounds like you were screwed. If an item must be used to be identified, what good is the spell? Does he insist you expend a charge from a wand in order to use identify, and if so why do you then need to cast the spell?

This is the old 1E rule as I recall. It's not that you're using the item. Wearing the helm (say a Helm of Teleportation, if they exist) is not the same as using it in most cases. Identify's usefulness seems to me to be pretty obvious in spite of this situation. If it is a helm of teleportation, then identify would tell you how to activate the teleportation, as well as the charges that the helm had left. Simply wearing the helm would not do this.

I tend not to use such cursed items in my game. If I thought some NPC would create a cursed item, they could certainly find a way to foil a 1st level divination spell and so identify would give false information anyway.