D&D General What does the mundane high level fighter look like? [+]

[Crimson Longinus]

I've repeatedly explained multiple ways that they handle such a scenario - the most obvious, I think, is by turning the NPCs into a player resource, analogous to a magic item in mechanical terms.

Is this something I can find rules for in any 4e book? Is this heading into complete Oberoni fallacy territory?

Also personally I'd hate this, but that hardly is surprising.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

As for actual suggestions, I'd look what are the common utility magic items martials characters tend to require at higher levels to perform properly and I would try to turn some of their functionality into class features, so that the characters become less reliant to magic items and the GM remembering to put the right items in the game.

I think overtly focusing on the damage aspect is a mistake. You can fiddle with it a bit, but the truth is that it is mostly fine. It is a distraction.

 

[Oofta]

As for actual suggestions, I'd look what are the common utility magic items martials characters tend to require at higher levels to perform properly and I would try to turn some of their functionality into class features, so that the characters become less reliant to magic items and the GM remembering to put the right items in the game.

I think overtly focusing on the damage aspect is a mistake. You can fiddle with it a bit, but the truth is that it is mostly fine. It is a distraction.

One thing I've thought about doing is having items that grow with the PC. As they gain levels, so do the items. I do this now in a fashion with items being "upgraded" by an external source. But I could also see items that just grow.

That and give fighters an additional attunement slot at certain points. I don't need to do that in my game, fighters contribute just as much if not more than other classes but it is an option.

 

[hawkeyefan]

So you disagree with @pemerton who said they agreed with you? I remain super confused. It seems to me you guys aren't even yourself sure what these rules are meant to represent...

I’ve no doubt that @pemerton and I are in agreement, and that somewhere along the way, you misunderstood something, or something was phrased poorly.

The rest of your post I won’t bother to address because as others have pointed out, we’re not getting anywhere and it’s detailing the thread.

Suffice it to say that I think one of the ways to make high level mundane fighters more effective is to implement some kind of system to allow them to wade through foes. The simpler that system is, the better.

I think some other areas that could be enhanced would be some social things related to their role/status. Enhance their ability to intimidate or to impress people via prowess. Perhaps some kind of reputation ability that can force foes to flee.

I’d probably also lean on the Fighting Styles a bit. Add some high level abilities for each one. I feel like that’d be an obvious area for some expansion. Get some kind of high level signature move type abilities.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I’ve no doubt that @pemerton and I are in agreement, and that somewhere along the way, you misunderstood something, or something was phrased poorly.

Probably. My confusion started from your ogre boss and their goons example, but I am not sure it is worth dwelling over.

The rest of your post I won’t bother to address because as others have pointed out, we’re not getting anywhere and it’s detailing the thread.

Fair.

Suffice it to say that I think one of the ways to make high level mundane fighters more effective is to implement some kind of system to allow them to wade through foes. The simpler that system is, the better.

Perhaps. But if we are talking about boosting martials specifically, then that capability must reside in these classes. Like it has been said many times, just bringing minion rules into 5e would benefit casters way more than it would martials.

I think some other areas that could be enhanced would be some social things related to their role/status. Enhance their ability to intimidate or to impress people via prowess. Perhaps some kind of reputation ability that can force foes to flee.

Sure. At least conceptually sounds fine. It is rather unfortunate that 5e really doesn't have codified morale mechanics. If it had, it would be easier to implement features that interact with that in consistent manner.

I’d probably also lean on the Fighting Styles a bit. Add some high level abilities for each one. I feel like that’d be an obvious area for some expansion. Get some kind of high level signature move type abilities.

Aside for my distaste for locking fighters into specific weapons, sounds like a fine idea.

Though I still think that mobility and athletic stunts is one are where the martials could use a boost, and the game more codified rule structure in general. Like hopping over, foes, sliding under them, using environment for advantage, throwing enemies at each other etc. All sort of typical action hero stuff. Sure it can be handled via skills and probably should, but as there is little codified structure it involves a lot of GM just making rulings. If we had more codified structure it would be easier to add rules that grant exceptions and bonuses. Same thing I said about the morale really.

 

[Minigiant]

Armor Skin​

Prerequisite: 16th Level, Indomitable (two uses) or Brutal Critical (2 dices)

• Increase your Constitution score by 1, up to a maximum of 20.
• While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
• While you are not wearing any armor, your armor class equals your Constitution score. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.

Devastator​

Prerequisite: 16th Level, Indomitable (two uses) or Brutal Critical (2 dices)

• Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, up to a maximum of 20.
• When you score a critical hit on a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. A creature is immune to this effect if it is immune to weapon's damage type, doesn't have or need a head, has legendary actions, or the GM decides that the creature is too big for its head to be cut off or destroy with this weapon. Such a creature instead takes an extra 6d8 damage of the weapon's damage type from the hit.

Legendary Commander​

Prerequisite: 16th Level, Indomitable (two uses)

• Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, up to a maximum of 20.
• If you own a bastion, the humanoid bastion defenders you have from facilities you've built are tripled.
• When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with a command or suggestion that adds an ability score modifier to an ally's next weapon attack against a creature until the start of your next turn. The ability score modifier is the same one chosen in this feat.

 

[Gammadoodler]

But if we are talking about boosting martials specifically, then that capability must reside in these classes. Like it has been said many times, just bringing minion rules into 5e would benefit casters way more than it would martials.

It's nor imperative that whatever mechanic reside on either the class or the monsters so long as the mechanic is designed to benefit martials.

The substance of the minion effect is that creatures die to one hit. Make it specific to an "attack" and it benefits martials.

 

[Scribe]

The substance of the minion effect is that creatures die to one hit. Make it specific to an "attack" and it benefits martials.

Right, but there is a segment of the community, and indeed the driver of all these threads, that we cannot 'lift all boats' and it must be only martials that are improved, as that is the supposed 'gap'. Casters must be either nerfed or unimpacted.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Right, but there is a segment of the community, and indeed the driver of all these threads, that we cannot 'lift all boats' and it must be only martials that are improved, as that is the supposed 'gap'. Casters must be either nerfed or unimpacted.

Sure. I'd be one of those. I'm just pointing out that martials can be lifted from either the PC side the monster side, or both.

 

[Quickleaf]

@Sacrosanct Did you want to entertain fighter re-designs in this thread? Or do you prefer to keep it conversational with bits of design examples interspersed, but more conceptual than design-y?

I ask because I have a fighter rewrite - ongoing project that I’ve updated - which gets into both the exploration/roleplaying side of the fighter & the high-level mundane fighter. If that is beyond the scope of this thread, I can back burner it and share in its own thread (Later! Once there are fewer threads about fighters).