D&D (2024) Warlock cantrips

[Neonchameleon]

My DM and me are unsure, we may just not be reading fully. Can a warlock take a second pact cantrip as one of the 2 cantrips they start with?

No.

And also

The Pact cantrips are not on the Arcane spell list. (Or the Arcane, Divine, or Primal lists for the Book cantrips).

 

[Neonchameleon]

I can see that for eldritch blast but book of shadow and pact blade don’t upgrade every time just at 5th

Pact Blade kinda has level scaling in that you're supposed to get magic weapons along the way and it upgrades with that. And Pact of the Chain has your familiar gain more HP as you level up.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

The rules are unambiguous if you read them carefully, but they way they are laid out and the names used makes it really easy to misunderstand them.

Spells in D&D have always been something you select from a list, so it's natural to get confused when we suddenly have spells on the lists that are not meant to be selectable.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

they are just listed in spells so far so what makes you think they wont be in the PHB? and as the OP said

if they were listed under class feature instead of spells it would dispel this issue 100%


buut are listed in the spells section under cantrips as warlock cantrips.

I don't think they are general, just warlock cantrips, and it is easy enough to see warlock class as able to take warlock cantrips.

since bard has spells from only part of a spell list and has some from a different spell list, you are telling me it is that hard to imagine "warlock cantrips" count as cantrips for warlocks?

again this is confuseing... if a spell is a wizard spell a wizard can learn it right?

If a feature says you can learn it, you can. It’s actually that simple. Wizard or warlock spells are only available via the feature that says so.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

The rules are unambiguous if you read them carefully,

if you have to do something carefully or repeatedly it isn't clear... clear is eaasy to pick up with a 1st read.

Spells in D&D have always been something you select from a list, so it's natural to get confused when we suddenly have spells on the lists that are not meant to be selectable.

 

[Shardstone]

if you have to do something carefully or repeatedly it isn't clear... clear is eaasy to pick up with a 1st read.

If I picked it up first read, but you didn't, who decides if its clear? You or me?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

If I picked it up first read, but you didn't, who decides if its clear? You or me?

if it's clear we both would an no one would ask this qustion... clear isn't "I can pick up on it" it's "Everyone can pick up on it."

The Op has an experienced group that had a question. I can see arguments either way. None of that leads to something being 'clear'

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

if it's clear we both would an no one would ask this qustion... clear isn't "I can pick up on it" it's "Everyone can pick up on it."

The Op has an experienced group that had a question. I can see arguments either way. None of that leads to something being 'clear'

Here is the thing. The rules as written are very clear and are not ambiguous. Selecting cantrips clearly states Arcane cantrips, and Warlock cantrips don't have that tag.

But think I understand why some people are confused. It's about logic and intent. Because to them, why wouldn't a Warlock be able to choose a Warlock cantrip? One could argue that it makes sense to be able to choose a Warlock cantrip, and not just an Arcane cantrip.

Should the feedback be about whether you want those Warlock cantrips to be selectable outside the pact boon? And what wording would have to change to make that happen?

 

[Neonchameleon]

if it's clear we both would an no one would ask this qustion... clear isn't "I can pick up on it" it's "Everyone can pick up on it."

The Op has an experienced group that had a question. I can see arguments either way. None of that leads to something being 'clear'

I think there's a conversation at cross-purposes here. I think it's clear as in "clear and unambiguous" what the rules say and are intended to say. I don't think it's clear as in "clearly presented and easy to understand".

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

But think I understand why some people are confused. It's about logic and intent. Because to them, why wouldn't a Warlock be able to choose a Warlock cantrip?

this is it... especially with creators saying it's meant for common reading and then ALSO saying you can make multi deals with multi creatures (aka multi pacts)

One could argue that it makes sense to be able to choose a Warlock cantrip, and not just an Arcane cantrip.

that is what I am being called a liar and/or dumb for saying... and that is what threw the OP off.

Should the feedback be about whether you want those Warlock cantrips to be selectable outside the pact boon? And what wording would have to change to make that happen?

I don't know if I want them to be or not, I just wish they made it easier to skim the spell list and understand what spells are and are not take able by each class. especially since current (and back compatible) xxx CANTRIP means that class can chose it.