Two Weapon Fighting Ranger Issues

[Rineran Foxfire]

So I'm in a Pathfinder Campaign for the first time, we're doing a very gritty sandbox called Serpent's Skull (No Spoilers please I am a PC). The campaign is very difficult and my Inquisitor just died. The DM is having me reroll and I wanted to make a Ranger who Dual Wields.

I'm noticing that Paizo made it particularly hard or didnt fix the old issues with TWF and I need some advice. At first I wanted to dual wield Scimitars because I have a hard on for the curved blade but as I'm doing my research I'm noticing there is no Oversized TWF or anything else to compensate using two one handed weapons. Now before you say anything about the DM being able to allow anything, we're playing by the book rules. No house rules, no fudging die rolls, nothing. 100% by the book. Hence why my character died.

So it looks like I am stuck at a -4/-4 if I want to use Scimitars. The only other option I can see would be switching to Short Swords and while it's not what I want flavor wise I'd rather be not gimped in this tough campaign than get to walk around with my favorite swords not being able to hit anything.

Plus if I go the Short Sword route I can take advantage of Weapon Finesse to give myself a high AC. Now the issue I'm having is I can't find anything about making TWF better for dual wielding one handers. I feel if I go the Short Sword route I might be making my late game worse. With Scimitars I could go into widening the critical range to make up for the damage of using a 1d6 weapon.

Should I just suck it up and go Rapier / Short Sword? Effectively doing so makes Weapon Focus not worth taking. Which allows me to take other TWF feats such as Two Weapon Defense and the like. Mind you I'm a Ranger not a Fighter so my feats actually matter to me.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I know you want to be a Ranger, but have you considered the Two-Weapon Fighter? It actually covers a bunch of your concerns, even the one-handed weapon in off-hand desire, albeit at level 11. As a Fighter, you can re-designate some of your feats if you want to switch weapons between levels, too.

Since it's Pathfinder, you can dip Ranger for 1 level and get the class skill bonus on all of those skills, you'll just have less you can focus in with the lower skill points, and retain some of the flavor from Ranger as well.

 

[billd91]

A fighter/ranger multiclass may not be a bad way to go. You keep a full BAB and d10 hit points. You get some extra bonus feats. And you get an influx of skill ranks flowing into the fighter.

Another decent multclass is ranger/rogue. You give up a little on your BAB and hp, but you add sneak attack damage whenever you flank - and that's with both weapons as you use TWF. And you won't feel as much need to go with heavier weapons and a higher strength build.

Do you have the Advanced Player's Guide? Some of the alternative ranger archetypes may catch your eye.

 

[Rineran Foxfire]

I like both ideas but I think I'm going to go with the Ranger / Rogue idea while taking the Skirmisher archetype. Ranger spells always seemed like the worst part about the class in my opinion. First 2 levels in Ranger then 1 in Rogue then 4 more in Ranger then 4 more in Rogue.

 

[Dingo333]

you should take quick relook through the spell list of the ranger, APG added some very nice ones that will help you with the "my weapon's damage dice is low" problem

Lead Blades: Your melee attacks deal damage as if they were 1 size category larger, minutes duration
Hunter's Howl: Enemies treated as favored for 1round/level
A smattering of cure spells (self sufficience mostly)
Darkvision: 60ft, duration is in the hour range
Aspect of the Wolf/Stag/Bear: Bonuses to defence and/or attacks, minutes duration
Instant Enemy: Like Hunter's Howl, but better

There is also the Beast Master archtype, Any animal companion, and you can have a lot of them, good for flanking, snag something as a mount, (a Roc for flight and an Arsinoitherium for land/combat) Only really lose 6th level feat, a pain yes, but not as big when you are charging down someone with a herd of elephants

If you go short sword as an elf, you can take Improved critical shortsword or get both swords keen, and use your first 8 favored class bonuses to gain a +1/2 (total +4) to critical hits, you may not get as many critical hits, but you will confirm them more often (scimitar is not on the list and would require a feat for the same effect)

On a side note, APG also added a 2 handed weapon style, and the curved elven sword is a very large scimitar (1d10, 18-20/x2, can use finesse with it)

 

[concerro]

So I'm in a Pathfinder Campaign for the first time, we're doing a very gritty sandbox called Serpent's Skull (No Spoilers please I am a PC). The campaign is very difficult and my Inquisitor just died. The DM is having me reroll and I wanted to make a Ranger who Dual Wields.

I'm noticing that Paizo made it particularly hard or didnt fix the old issues with TWF and I need some advice. At first I wanted to dual wield Scimitars because I have a hard on for the curved blade but as I'm doing my research I'm noticing there is no Oversized TWF or anything else to compensate using two one handed weapons. Now before you say anything about the DM being able to allow anything, we're playing by the book rules. No house rules, no fudging die rolls, nothing. 100% by the book. Hence why my character died.

So it looks like I am stuck at a -4/-4 if I want to use Scimitars. The only other option I can see would be switching to Short Swords and while it's not what I want flavor wise I'd rather be not gimped in this tough campaign than get to walk around with my favorite swords not being able to hit anything.

Plus if I go the Short Sword route I can take advantage of Weapon Finesse to give myself a high AC. Now the issue I'm having is I can't find anything about making TWF better for dual wielding one handers. I feel if I go the Short Sword route I might be making my late game worse. With Scimitars I could go into widening the critical range to make up for the damage of using a 1d6 weapon.

Should I just suck it up and go Rapier / Short Sword? Effectively doing so makes Weapon Focus not worth taking. Which allows me to take other TWF feats such as Two Weapon Defense and the like. Mind you I'm a Ranger not a Fighter so my feats actually matter to me.

The power of TWF is the critical feats. You can jack people up with those. It does take time for the build to mature thought.
Double slice is your friend since your offhand now does full strength damage with that feat.
Two weapon Rend ignore DR since it is considerd to be part of another attack, and not its own attack.
Damage is more from the attribute at the end than base weapon damage. Go with kukri's. The crit range and your strength will make for the 1d4. Remember that since rangers can ignore prereqs you only have to take as much dex as you need for your AC and some skills. Pump your strength up.
When using TWF don't have a different weapon type in each hand. If you only use one weapon then feats like weapon focus have more value.

 

[Rineran Foxfire]

The power of TWF is the critical feats. You can jack people up with those. It does take time for the build to mature thought.
Double slice is your friend since your offhand now does full strength damage with that feat.
Two weapon Rend ignore DR since it is considerd to be part of another attack, and not its own attack.
Damage is more from the attribute at the end than base weapon damage. Go with kukri's. The crit range and your strength will make for the 1d4. Remember that since rangers can ignore prereqs you only have to take as much dex as you need for your AC and some skills. Pump your strength up.
When using TWF don't have a different weapon type in each hand. If you only use one weapon then feats like weapon focus have more value.

So ok you think I should go 18 Dex 14 Str at the start for AC then put all my stat points into STR to boost dmg? I'm sold ont he dual wielding short swords, the threat range is only 1 different.

 

[concerro]

So ok you think I should go 18 Dex 14 Str at the start for AC then put all my stat points into STR to boost dmg? I'm sold ont he dual wielding short swords, the threat range is only 1 different.

I think your dex should depend on your starting armor so you can get a decent AC. After that strength should be a priority. You will do more damage that way. That does not mean you have to ignore dex, but if you have to choose at some point, due to lack of funds as an example, go with strength. As for the short swords vs the kukri, the crit range will be 2 when you take improved critical or get keen on both of them.

If you DM does not give you hints to help you select favored enemies then I would take the guide variant from the APG.

 

[kelseus]

since you don't have to worry about Dex prerequs for TWF you want to MAX your STR to increase your Damage. Dex 14 is really all you need, 14 wis, 10 cha (12 max), dump int. MAX STRANGTH. Avoid weapon finesse like the plague, you don't need a high dex so stick with Str b/c increases hit and damage, and use only one weapon type so you don't need two weapon focus feats.

 

[Dingo333]

@ Kelseus. I would agree with you, if DEX wasn't the most important ability score.

It determines AC, Initiative, Stealth, Acrobatics, Ride, Touch AC, CMD.

Strength only helps damage output, to hit(modifiable to DEX based), CMB(modifiable to DEX based), CMD(which dex helps too), climb, swim

I would recomend topping off Dex at 18 unless you want a higher one, even then 20 or 22 will do.

I agree you want STR to be your next best, but 14 is good in a point buy.

I would make CHA your dump stat, as you can use the extra skill points INT gets ya. A WIS of 14 is all you need, though if you can go higher, go for it, it helps survival and perception. CON is Important, between 3rd and fourth (2nd to 3rd to upgrade)