Thoughts on Multiclassing

[Warbringer]

As we are certainly getting close to seeing rules, I wanted see what people are hoping for.

Personally, I'd love a return to 1e/2e (sans class level restrictions).

I loved the idea that multi-classing was just being 1 or 2 levels behind in each of the classes; but leveling was geometric not linear, so not sure how that would be implemented today without feeling unbalanced.

The idea of a 3e like system concerns me as there isn't really a granular enough system to support this. By this I mean 3e mutli-class was a way of building any character type (ala GURPS or Hero), by dipping. But because there was no unifying mechanic for magic (BAB, skills and HPs were unified) we got broken classes quickly, especially because of Level 1 dipping.

I think if we will get the latter (with intent of the former) with rules that you dip into the level you multi-class into it could work.

By this I mean, say you are a 6th level fighter who levels, you can either take another level of fighter, so i'm 7th, or take the same level of Wizard, 6th. This means I get the spell of a 6th level Wizard (but not all up to that level), d4 (or d6) hit points, no BAB (as its less than fighter) but casting level (as 6th level) ...

This would make multi-class playable and interesting, IMHO

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That seems like cutting in line, IMHO.

I'm a multiclassing junkie, but that would stop me from doing it.

 

[Warbringer]

That seems like cutting in line, IMHO.

I'm a multiclassing junkie, but that would stop me from doing it.

What are you hoping for?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Looking only at past styles of multiclassing, my personal preferences are, in order:

1) 3.X style multiclassing, possibly without the XP penalties.

2) 4Ed style Hybrids

3) 1Ed/2Ed style multiclassing OR 3.X style Gestalts.

4) 4Ed "dabbler"-style multiclassing, but without requiring burning feats to gain more abilities from the class you dabbled in- class ability swapping should just be allowed

Note, these are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'd also like to see the effectiveness of AD&D multiclassing. My multiclassing litmus test is whether my fighter/mage can fight at least as well as a cleric and cast at least 7th or 8th level spells when the party is 20th level. I mean, clerics can fight as well as a cleric and cast 9th level spells...are wizard spells so powerful that fighting like a cleric and casting 7th or 8th level spells (without all the cleric's special sauce) is overpowered? I personally don't think so. Rather, they haven't figured out how to make it happen, but I sure hope they do, or I'll find a way to house rule it. *Sigh* I don't want to have to houserule backwards compatibility with old edition style.

 

[Ahnehnois]

There are tons of problems with 3e multiclassing. Spellcasting doesn't scale well, BAB and save math is wacky, class skills are confusing, XP penalties are stupid, and overly specific class abilities don't facilitate certain classes multiclassing.

However, I've derived two main observations from my years of using it.
1) All of those problems are totally fixable. Not without digging into the basic math of the system and changing how classes are designed, mind you, but they're fixable.
2) Even with those problems, 3e multiclassing still works, and is much better than 2e's hackneyed system or 4e's lip service to the concept.

So my feeling is that if you're using a class/level system, start with 3e and build the mechanics of the system to better support 3e-style multiclassing.

 

[Ratskinner]

Ahh multiclassing...how I love and dread thee.

I figure the multiclassing rules need to be able to reflect all the following situations:

• The guy who "knows a little bit of X". -Dabbling
• The guy who blends classes X and Y. - Concurrent MCing
• The guy who started off as an X, but then became a Y (prestige class or no). -Sequential MCing

In addition, for any of those situations, the rules should also:

• keep the multi-class character balanced and competitive with single-class characters.
  • which means there must be some cost (usually levels) for the added breadth of the character
  • but it should work in a way that those three levels of Wizard I took way back when aren't dragging me down and useless now.
• avoid making NPC creation an accounting homework-like exercise.
• be modularity-aware (i.e. not depend heavily or intricately on other subsystems).

So long as whatever they come up with can handle all that (and I think its actually quite doable, given some of the OGL rulesets I've seen on this), I will be happy with it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Common concepts might just need a new class instead. Pathfinder has the magus class, which is basically a better fighter/mage ("striker" variant). It actually fixes the action economy problem that most fighter/mages face, which is something the Eldritch Knight did not fix.

It's also limited. It has its own spell list, and there are some spells it can never cast. (I don't think the magus needs to have the broad span of utility spells and spells not related to being a fighter/mage that a typical fighter/wizard combo would get.)

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I pretty much agree with all of you. I find the magus class intriguing, but it still isn't really want I'm looking for. See, I want all those utility powers. I see my desired fighter/mage as a similar to having a double major, or degrees in both wizardry and fighting. Basically, taking half of my levels in fighter, and the other half in wizard would be fine...if they could fix that dang spellcasting scaling.

 

[Stormonu]

I like 3E in that you could learn to be anything, but they made a serious mistake in trying to push "every level is equal" - picking up 1 level in wizard is not of the same value as getting your 7th level of fighter, and the reverse is even truer (though the latter is mostly a fault in the inbalance between spellcasters and non-spellcasters in 3E).

I'd like to see something more along the lines of 2E's dual-classing rules, but that you can switch between class advancement. If your a 6th level fighter and you want to pick up your first level of wizard, it should only take about 1,000 XP - not the XP to be 7th level (as a fighter). However, this has an issue as well - you could abuse it by taking lots of 1 or 2 level class dips for the cost of one higher level in any given class.