Berserkers get advantage on dex saves, and evasion, and can wear heavy armor with it. Nuts. (And that's not considering with Tempest having constant cover)
Level Up (A5E) Thoughts on A5E classes from your table(s)?
evildmguy
Explorer
Okay, more playing with Stunning Assault and it's just OP.
The fighter stunned a hydra and a purple worm. That's why I'm saying it's OP because it has no restrictions on what it can stun. I think anything that is larger than the fighter gets advantage on saves. Two steps larger is advantage and expertise die on the save, and so on for each step. Yes, I want the gargantuan dragon to have advantage, huge CON save, AND +d8 expertise die. If it still fails with all of that? Fine, it's stunned.
Personally, I think it should be limited to humanoid types (human, orc, elf, dwarf, etc.) that it can affect. Maybe getting one type in some way but not sure how that would work. Or a bonus to anything with different physiology.
Just sharing more thoughts after a session. I also think that monk Stunning Fist, or anything that gives this right away, is OP due to how powerful Stun is. There needs to be a progression of conditions that lead up to getting Stun.
The fighter stunned a hydra and a purple worm. That's why I'm saying it's OP because it has no restrictions on what it can stun. I think anything that is larger than the fighter gets advantage on saves. Two steps larger is advantage and expertise die on the save, and so on for each step. Yes, I want the gargantuan dragon to have advantage, huge CON save, AND +d8 expertise die. If it still fails with all of that? Fine, it's stunned.
Personally, I think it should be limited to humanoid types (human, orc, elf, dwarf, etc.) that it can affect. Maybe getting one type in some way but not sure how that would work. Or a bonus to anything with different physiology.
Just sharing more thoughts after a session. I also think that monk Stunning Fist, or anything that gives this right away, is OP due to how powerful Stun is. There needs to be a progression of conditions that lead up to getting Stun.
I like my fix for Stunning Assault:
STUNNING ASSAULT
(2 points, cannot be lowered)
2nd degree Tempered Iron action
You can strike an opponent with enough force to stun them.
When you activate this technique, you take the Attack action and make a weapon attack, as well as any additional attacks granted by Extra Attack.
Until the start of your next turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack it makes a Constitution saving throw or is rattled until the end of your next turn. When you hit a creature that is rattled, it makes a Constitution saving throw or is stunned until the end of your next turn.
Prerequisite
Extra Attack
A hit rattles. Hitting a rattled creature stuns. There are spells and other effects that rattle enemies, so there's a teamwork angle there.
I did lower the cost from 3 to 2 with the caveat that it can't be lowered further by Specialization etc.
One of my players renamed it on his sheet to "Tepid Assault" but he still uses it
evildmguy
Explorer
I was talking to some people in the a5e discord channel and they didn't like Rattled because that feels more mental in nature, like a failed morale check, and stunned was more physical. Maybe slowed? I do like slowed as it has penalties to a roll that aren't disadvantage.
I wonder if conditions need to be reworked since a5e added strife, a mental side? Have conditions be physical or mental related? Again, throwing ideas out there. Equally, why does it take the unconscious condition to drop things? Stunned, incapacitated, frightened, paralyzed, and maybe grappled could cause someone to drop things.
I do think the descriptions of the maneuvers need to be tweaked. Maybe not that so much as what each group does needs better definition. There is nothing in Tempered Iron that really explains what the maneuvers in it do, which is to shut down casters, for the most part. Having SA in that, well sure it shuts down casters but it shuts down everyone.
I do disagree with "cannot be lowered." As others have said to me, nothing else does that. Maybe it should be more like the Adept's Stunning Strike in that it costs per attempt.
Again, just throwing out ideas.
I wonder if conditions need to be reworked since a5e added strife, a mental side? Have conditions be physical or mental related? Again, throwing ideas out there. Equally, why does it take the unconscious condition to drop things? Stunned, incapacitated, frightened, paralyzed, and maybe grappled could cause someone to drop things.
I do think the descriptions of the maneuvers need to be tweaked. Maybe not that so much as what each group does needs better definition. There is nothing in Tempered Iron that really explains what the maneuvers in it do, which is to shut down casters, for the most part. Having SA in that, well sure it shuts down casters but it shuts down everyone.
I do disagree with "cannot be lowered." As others have said to me, nothing else does that. Maybe it should be more like the Adept's Stunning Strike in that it costs per attempt.
Again, just throwing out ideas.
Shardstone
Hero
Rattled shouldn't just be mental stuff...I mean, your brain getting rattled is actually a thing, so...
The normal cost is 3EP, but I didn't know if the nerf made it still worth 3- to me it wasn't the issue of being able to use SA super often, but how much a single round of SA could do.. so lowering the cost made sense to still make it viable. That caveat is there because in no way did I want it to drop to 1EP from fighter specialization.
But heck, even nerfed it might still be worth 3EP. If anything it makes the berserker's Stunning critical option more viable (instead of Blind being the absolute go-to since there's no save).
W'rkncacnter
Hero
i've been considering 3 options for stunning assault here:
1. make it so a creature only needs to save when they take their con score in damage in a turn. so a 20 con creature only needs to save against stunning assault if you dealt at least 20 damage to it, and has to make 2 saves if you dealt at least 40 damage to it. this should make it harder to impose multiple saves against stun against a single creature, and was discussed earlier.
2. make it a condition ladder. on a failed save, a creature with no conditions becomes rattled, or a rattled creature becomes slowed, or a slowed creature becomes stunned. makes it harder to stun a creature, and makes it basically impossible to stun multiple in a single turn without help from other party members. this is basically both flavors of the "don't make it stunned immediately" idea at once.
3. throw out the entire idea of stunning assault and make it fit the tradition better by having it impose a level of strife on a failed save instead of the stunned condition. you could call it terrible assault or something. still pretty painful (especially for casters and especially from fighters), but not as debilitating as the stunned condition.
1. make it so a creature only needs to save when they take their con score in damage in a turn. so a 20 con creature only needs to save against stunning assault if you dealt at least 20 damage to it, and has to make 2 saves if you dealt at least 40 damage to it. this should make it harder to impose multiple saves against stun against a single creature, and was discussed earlier.
2. make it a condition ladder. on a failed save, a creature with no conditions becomes rattled, or a rattled creature becomes slowed, or a slowed creature becomes stunned. makes it harder to stun a creature, and makes it basically impossible to stun multiple in a single turn without help from other party members. this is basically both flavors of the "don't make it stunned immediately" idea at once.
3. throw out the entire idea of stunning assault and make it fit the tradition better by having it impose a level of strife on a failed save instead of the stunned condition. you could call it terrible assault or something. still pretty painful (especially for casters and especially from fighters), but not as debilitating as the stunned condition.
evildmguy
Explorer
Fair point. Merely offering what someone else said.
Okay, what about this for an easy fix? Change the move action such that once they stop, their move is done. No more being able to move up to your full move around other actions. When you take your move action, you move and are done with movement. This makes any ability to take a dash as a bonus action even better.
W'rkncacnter
Hero
that is a bafflingly broad change for a very specific problem.
I also changed the Stunned condition, but that was well after my Stunning Assault change. I won't suggest trying my SA change anymore, I know everyone has their own opinions on what works and what doesn't 
The Stunned condition change was because I was tired of players not being able to play after being mind-blasted etc... I did question whether I needed the SA nerf after I'd changed how Stun works.. the answer was still "yes."
FYI the Stun change is:
A stunned creature's speed is halved and can speak only falteringly; it cannot cast leveled spells requiring a vocal component.
A stunned creature cannot take reactions or concentrate.
On its turn, a stunned creature can take either an action or a bonus action, not both. In addition, it can't make more than one melee or ranged attack during its turn. Its attack rolls and ability checks are made at Disadvantage.
It automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
The Stunned condition change was because I was tired of players not being able to play after being mind-blasted etc... I did question whether I needed the SA nerf after I'd changed how Stun works.. the answer was still "yes."
FYI the Stun change is:
A stunned creature's speed is halved and can speak only falteringly; it cannot cast leveled spells requiring a vocal component.
A stunned creature cannot take reactions or concentrate.
On its turn, a stunned creature can take either an action or a bonus action, not both. In addition, it can't make more than one melee or ranged attack during its turn. Its attack rolls and ability checks are made at Disadvantage.
It automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
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