D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Neonchameleon]

The way I see it their are two solutions to the problem. You either use use variable refresh rates for players and force all groups to use a similar pacing for the adventure day, or all players use a similar refresh rate and you allow different groups to use different paces and have as many or as few encounters per day as the would like.

And the second was one of the biggest things people criticised about 4e.

 

[renbot]

Theoretically, but you might be disappointed with it. This is all old memory, so take with a grain of salt, but IIRC, the 3.5 Warlock was designed around ... Once a Wizard/Sorcerer has 5th level spells, for example, 2nd level spells are effectively unlimited for them. Sure, they expend those spell slots, but the main power of those casters was their top 2 to 3 levels of spells they could cast. So if a 9th level Wizard treats 2nd level spells as an unlimited resource, than there's no problem giving the same to a Warlock. Which explains how Warlocks gain at will spells.

Unfortunately, 5e doesn't really make that same assumption, or more to the point, 5e casters are far more limited in their upper tier spell slots and so use their lower level spells more frequently and also run out of them more. So I'm not sure the base assumptions line up properly. Look at the number of spell slots a 3.5 Wizard has, with bonus spells from high casting stats, compared to a 5e Wizard. It's a big difference.

Yeah, I'm sure I am looking at it through nostalgia-colored glasses. But it would scratch an itch I've had in 5e for a while: fewer spells and more unique class stuff. For example, I have always wanted a Bard half-caster with significantly more robust BI and skill using options. Of course, DnDone looks to be racing in the other direction as fast as it can.

Another of my itches (I should probably see a doctor) is for casters to have more at-will non- (or barely) damaging condition inflicting abilities. I think a neglected design space, especially given the concerns regarding fighter/spellcaster imbalance concerns, is for spellcasters to hamper opponents just enough that the sword/bow wielders can really shine. I think this would make for a more cooperative combat dynamic and not leave weapon wielders questioning their life choices at middle to upper middle tiers. The 3.5 warlock could also fill that space although it didn't have to.

 

[codo]

And the second was one of the biggest things people criticised about 4e.

I loved 4E, it was my favorite version of d&d at the time(to be replaced by 5e), but the fact that it forced you to use a certain playstyle and pacing was one of my biggest complaints about it.

 

[Charlaquin]

The issue is when time is of the essence or there is no option to rest safely. WotC just put out a book of Heists. Are you going to stop and rest an hour in the middle of Revel's End? Just pull up a cell and wait for lunch? Or the cultists sacrificing the royal at midnight? The flooding dungeon escape? The hobgoblin fortress on high alert because someone woke the guard? Time is never important? Monsters just wait until after your Union break?

Or do you just assume we all just dungeon crawl with rope trick prepped so that we can rest whenever we want?

There are absolutely times when resting is impractical. This is the case for long rests as well as short rests - more so, in fact, because they take eight times as long.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's because you're assuming the Fighter/Monk/Warlock is without fault. How do you know they're not going nova every encounter and then whining about needing to rest?

What I'm seeing is a party member that needs help and allies who are potentially acting selfishly.

 

[Reef]

There are absolutely times when resting is impractical. This is the case for long rests as well as short rests - more so, in fact, because they take eight times as long.

I agree! But this goes against all the times you’ve told me my DM is doing it wrong every time I said we can’t always take the short rests we want!

 

[Vaalingrade]

I agree! But this goes against all the times you’ve told me my DM is doing it wrong every time I said we can’t always take the short rests we want!

Probably because it was originally framed as not being able to take enough rests to function as the class.

 

[Pedantic]

Is it too late to recreate the 3.5 warlock? I just reviewed in online and remembered how much I loved it. A highly magical PC that operated differently from everything we had seen before. And it would have been so EASY to recreate for 5E.

Sigh. Wishcasting over.

Yeah, I miss it too. Along with the Binder, Dragon Shaman and the Magic of Incarnum classes, it does feel like there was space for more flexible "at-will" approaches to magic a Warlock class could have taken.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

The solution to only one out of 5 players being on a different resource schedule is to give more short rest abilities to more classes, not to put everything on daily. That is, indeed, boring.

No, short and long rest both only matter before you’ve finished clearing the cave (again, unless you can’t safely get to town, in which case, you’re still in a dangerous location, so both still matter). At any time where resting of any kind matters, resting for 1 hour will be easier than resting for 8.

I disagree. If ability recharges were based on a short rest, then you cannot take on many dungeons properly because you start the first encounter, stir up the hornets nest, run out of abilities, and then can't rest to get them back, so you are stuck with basic attacks over multiple encounters, or have to retreat and hope they don't chase you.

With more abilities on a long rest you can choose if you want to alpha or stretch your abilities out over multiple encounters without resting after every encounter.

 

[doctorhook]

I am trying to figure out how to discuss things civil here, and I see this more and more.

honestly I still appreciate how civil ENWorld is compared to the entire rest of the internet. It remains a shining example of solid moderation.

There are always jerks, and maybe people are more openly jerkish than in the past, but this place is excellent at shutting it down.

I knew they were half-casters before reading the packet because they said so in the companion video (well, they said the warlock’s spell slot progression matched the Ranger’s and Paladin’s). I definitely agree that the Invocation changes are pretty positive. I also really like the improved pact boons, even though making them spells is a bit weird. Absolutely love that pact boons also give you a choice of two spellcasting abilities! But half-casting just ruins the whole class for me.

Ah, yeah I never watch the videos or streams. I never got into the habit, I guess, and there’s so many hype videos constantly; I don’t know how others keep up with all the streams out there.