D&D 1E There were 10 saving throws

[John R Davis]

We just started a new basic DND campaign the other day. The saving throws sound more flavourful and are much more down to the pc making the save than the entity forcing the save. Plus as mentioned above the power of the magic user at super high levels is tempered by the fact that the saves get easier.

 

[Lyxen]

The save throws that the OP mentioned are described in detail in the Basic, Expert, and Companion rules (and later condensed in the Rules Cyclopedia.)

• Poison/Death Ray: Your character would make this save throw to avoid instant death. It was the infamous "save or die" mechanic.
• Magic Wands: Your character would use this when trying to jump out of the way of something, such as the beam from a magic wand.
• Paralysis/Turn to Stone: Your character would use this against things that would slow or stop movement, or change their bodies...like a medusa's gaze changing you into stone.
• Dragon's Breath: Your character would use this when trying to cover up from an area effect, like a breath attack.
• Spells/Magic Staff: This was the catch-all save throw for all magical attacks.

In 3rd Edition, these were regrouped into three categories, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. This was (and remains) my favorite.

In 5th Edition, they were all grouped under different ability scores...and very unevenly, I might add. For every effect or spell that requires a Strength save, there are dozens that require Dexterity or Wisdom. But that rant belongs in another thread.

If I may, the list from OP comes from AD&D, the list that you have is indeed the one from BECMI, but is slightly different, in particular grouping staves with spells, although it's interesting to note that, even at that point in time, it was considered that spells cast through staves were really spells and less magic items effects.

As for the grouping, I think the move to 5e was really good, less vocabulary to remember, there are still three major categories, but having a few saves under different abilities not only punishes statd dumping appropriately, but also makes some spells and effect quite distinctive and desirable in addition to their effects. There does not need to be a balance here, just some logic, and it's there.

 

[Steampunkette]

Rod/Staff/Wands pertained to all saves against effects created by these specific items. Actually, there were only 5 groups:

• Paralysation, Poison and Death Magic
• Petrification or Polymorph
• Rod, Staff or Wand
• Breath Weapon
• Spell

Man... that is a blast from the past...

And also gives me an O5e Homebrew Rule idea.

DMs can just map these old Saves to the new Saves, after a fashion, both to increase the variety of saves used and get some of that "Old School" feeling back by there being 5 "General" Saving throw types.

PPD: Constitution Saves, every time.
PP: Charisma. You're asserting your identity over the idea of being a pig or a statue.
RSW: Intelligence. You know to get out of the way of the wand and recognize what's coming out of it. Even Fireballs (Evasion still applies)
BW: Dexterity. Gotta dodge. Probably expand this to things like regularly cast Fireballs, obviously. Maybe make it "AoE" instead of BW.
Spell: Wisdom. If it's not listed, here, it's a Wisdom save.

 

[Lyxen]

We just started a new basic DND campaign the other day. The saving throws sound more flavourful and are much more down to the pc making the save than the entity forcing the save. Plus as mentioned above the power of the magic user at super high levels is tempered by the fact that the saves get easier.

Old School gaming with B/X is actually quite popular for many reasons, it has lots of qualities and I remember it with fondness.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Man... that is a blast from the past...

And also gives me an O5e Homebrew Rule idea.

DMs can just map these old Saves to the new Saves, after a fashion, both to increase the variety of saves used and get some of that "Old School" feeling back by there being 5 "General" Saving throw types.

PPD: Constitution Saves, every time.
PP: Charisma. You're asserting your identity over the idea of being a pig or a statue.
RSW: Intelligence. You know to get out of the way of the wand and recognize what's coming out of it. Even Fireballs (Evasion still applies)
BW: Dexterity. Gotta dodge. Probably expand this to things like regularly cast Fireballs, obviously. Maybe make it "AoE" instead of BW.
Spell: Wisdom. If it's not listed, here, it's a Wisdom save.

I like those, but the fact that STR does not have save irks me. Were I to use such rule, I'd make sure to at least remove the + Dex damage to finesse and ranged weapons.

Or make a new Save for STR effects like forced movement?

Forced Movement
Poison & Death Effect
Form Shaping
Magic Items
Breath & Blast
Spells

 

[Steampunkette]

I like those, but the fact that STR does not have save irks me. Were I to use such rule, I'd make sure to at least remove the + Dex damage to finesse and ranged weapons.

Or make a new Save for STR effects like forced movement?

Forced Movement
Poison & Death Effect
Form Shaping
Magic Items
Breath & Blast
Spells

Strength against forced movement works great, yeah.

Particularly if you apply it to anything that pushes, magical or otherwise.

 

[Staffan]

Rod/Staff/Wands pertained to all saves against effects created by these specific items. Actually, there were only 5 groups:

• Paralysation, Poison and Death Magic
• Petrification or Polymorph
• Rod, Staff or Wand
• Breath Weapon
• Spell

One thing that's easy to miss is that for the basic classes, Rods/Staves/Wands is always one point better than Spell. So basically, there are four categories but instead of making a rule that you get +1 to the save vs rods, staves, and wands, they made it a distinct category. This was apparently so easy to miss that in the one place I know that expanded the save table (Complete Psionics Handbook), psionicists do not share the same RSW/Spell progression as everyone else. I was going to say that it would also mean the bonus would not apply to RSW using a higher-priority save type (e.g. wand of paralyzation), but it seems they forgot their own priority system as a wand of paralyzation requires a save vs wand, not save vs paralyzation.

 

[GMMichael]

Or make a new Save for STR effects like forced movement?

Strength saves:
Save vs. Crushing: what happens when something heavy is about to flatten you.
Save vs. Fling: a strong wind, or dragon's tail, threatens to toss you into the next zip code. This save prevents that.

 

[Li Shenron]

Paralysation.
Poison
Death magic
Petrification
Polymorth
Rods
Staves
Wands
Breath weapon.
Spell

I do not miss them at all.

I like having a differentiation of effect type (e.g. the first 5) as well as of saving method (i.e. the current 6 saves of 5e, or the 3 saves of 3e) but to have both matter in the game it is more solid that one of the two determines a baseline and the other is in the form of a modifier (both 3e and 5e). Also, having different numbers for Rods, Staves and Wands vs Spells just makes no sense, since R/S/W simply cast spells.

 

[Lyxen]

I do not miss them at all.

I like having a differentiation of effect type (e.g. the first 5) as well as of saving method (i.e. the current 6 saves of 5e, or the 3 saves of 3e) but to have both matter in the game it is more solid that one of the two determines a baseline and the other is in the form of a modifier (both 3e and 5e). Also, having different numbers for Rods, Staves and Wands vs Spells just makes no sense, since R/S/W simply cast spells.

Apart from the nostalgia of all these adventures, I must say I do not miss them either. There were some good ideas there, but it was honestly so hard to manage and to learn. 3e did a really god job normalising things, but kept them complex and too imbricated, but it took real genius to streamlined it even more as 5e did and still keep the original spirit (it's always harder to make things simple). 5e is not perfect, but honestly, it's as good as it's ever been in that domain at least.