D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah while dodging fireballs and hacking 100 ton giants to death, surviving being kicked hard by said 100 ton giants because I made my save and killing those beholders, I often think how much like our own reality it is??????????????

Attacks don't connect in D&D unless they bring you to zero hp, so it really doesn't matter how many tons the giants are or how hard they kick, only what your hp total is after the attack is resolved.

 

[nevin]

1st Edition...... gygax on hitpoints.......note hitpoints are supposed to be a fuzzy ill defined pool of damage you can take while still functioning without being too real.

 

[nevin]

Attacks don't connect in D&D unless they bring you to zero hp, so it really doesn't matter how many tons the giants are or how hard they kick, only what your hp total is after the attack is resolved.

and yet the point completely missed you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

and yet the point completely missed you.

How about you stop insulting me and explain it then? Or would you rather just fling barbs?

 

[Clint_L]

The thread, at this point:

“I want the game to continue to have room for kick-ass, non-supernatural characters like Conan, like it has since 1974”

About three people, over and over: “you’re illogical and wrong and stupid for wanting that.”

Do any of you think you are convincing anyone by just repeating that your subjective, demonstrably minority taste is superior because reasons? Is the goal to alienate as many people as possible?

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't have any issue with One piece as a game setting. I am not looking for in-world / in-fiction justifications. I just want to understand it from a game rules perspective. So it would just be clear that humans in the One Piece setting can be supernaturally big or strong compared to real life humans.

I want:

1. I would prefer the game to have clear game jargon for various different magical or supernatural elements. So rules interactions are clearly understood. Like anti-magic works on magic, but not supernatural things (as an example). What this means for setting could be different from setting to setting.

This is a problem ONLY because of Anti-magic. Nothing else cares or interacts with these things in an unclear manner. For Example, whether or not you consider psionics magical, a creature using psionics to cast detect thoughts can be counter-spelled or the spell dispelled, because it is still a spell-like effect.

The game jargon does not need to exist, except to satisfy a single spell that is poorly thought out and poorly worded.

1. I have had several posts suggest that it is not a fantasy game if my humans can't do amazing unreal physical things (things people can not do in real life). I don't wish to gatekeep. I want to be able to play mundane characters and fantastic characters (and understand the difference) in the same rules (doesn't even have to be the same setting - it is all about clear rules for me).

That is basically what I am asking for, not sure why that is such a no go for some people. I am not trying to prevent people from playing anything. I in fact want everything to possible from playing a normal human to playing a literal deity.

This one is more complicated, and I think you got your wires crossed.

First, DnD humans are already capable of of this, because of Monks. It is already an established fact. The issue is that people keep saying humans can't do these things, and other pointing out that, this is fantasy, of course they can do these things if we say they can.

The issue I keep seeing is that people say "I want to play a mundane character" and they want a gritty, down-to-earth human fighter who would fit into Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. Which is fine... for low-level DnD. However, people want this character to continue, without a growth in power, to move from "Kill this Orc Chieftain" to "Kill this interdimensional dragon who is ripping apart the fabric of the multiverse"

Now, I don't think fighters exactly need a boost in combat damage, they are doing well enough there. But conceptually... Boromir at the height of his power cannot slay a dragon. He can't even solo a troll. So when you say you want a completely mundane human fighter... how do you imagine that works? Because every existing archetype for that character is a low-level character who can never face the foes of a Mid-level DnD campaign, and you want to take them to level 20.

And this is not a restriction on any other class, except the rogue.

Now, some people tackle this by declaring that we don't even accurately depict mundane fighters. A mid-level fighter should have auto-hit, a reaction to dodge all damage and make a full round of counter-attacks, be able to make debiliating called shots and essentially take six actions a turn. Which is one way to go about it I suppose.

I tend to go the other route. I tend to think combat is good, particularly attacks and damage, it handles mundane and non-mundane characters within the confines of the game. But out of combat... we need improvements. We need our high-level fighters and rogues to feel like experts in their fields, not just because they can roll a high number, but in abilities that those skills give them. And people want to label those as fantastic, or supernatural, or magical... and fine, sure. You can call it what you want, but go back to the first point... in terms of the game it doesn't matter, unless you want Anti-magic fields to shut it off. IF you don't? Then it doesn't matter what you call it.

 

[Chaosmancer]

it really doesn't run on any more 'rule of cool' than any other shounen series, sure it might have a goofy tone but that doesn't mean it doesn't take itself or it's worldbuilding any less seriously, the various powers exist and they have their set rules, but the people in the world are also just stronger than any 'realworld' person is, like most every DnD world, and it goes without any mention on being weird because it is fantasy,

honestly i think it's most it's apparent in the first few arcs when things are happening fairly back-to-back where zoro is fighting his swordfights while still recovering from injuries from the last battles and he tanks enough damage that probably should've killed him several times over, even just after the first fight if he were a 'normal' human, but he doesn't die, because that's not how these things go.

Yeah, I think the moment that forever cemented Zoro (before Thriller Bark) was Arlong ripping off his bandages, seeing the wound from Mihawk, and going "You should be dead!" after he had just finished kicking the crap out of most of his crew.

 

[nevin]

How about you stop insulting me and explain it then? Or would you rather just fling barbs?

My point was nothing about the game feels normal or non magical regardless of the lack of definition of where powers came from or that swinging a sword was possible in real and d&d world. Don't know anyone in all the years I've played since 1977 complaining about the source or non magical and/or magical fighter. They just play without knowing why it works and are happy and feel the fantasy vibe.

sorry for being snarky

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

The thread, at this point:

“I want the game to continue to have room for kick-ass, non-supernatural characters like Conan, like it has since 1974”

About three people, over and over: “you’re illogical and wrong and stupid for wanting that.”

Do any of you think you are convincing anyone by just repeating that your subjective, demonstrably minority taste is superior because reasons? Is the goal to alienate as many people as possible?

Conan is a low level concept.

 

[Gammadoodler]

That clarity is also useful for players to understand that a given effect is meant to be supernatural or not so they can manage their expectations and keep to one side or the other if that's important to them. Also helpful when worldbuilding to aid in visualization. The "can I Counterspell/Anti-magic this" question is just part of it.

And here we circle back again to perspective.
I don't think we need to coach players to recognize that certain abilities are beyond what can occur in the real world. Those players live in the real world their entire lives and should be pretty familiar with its limitations by the time they get to the game.

Where the coaching could/should reasonably happen would be how to visualize the abilities from a setting perspective. Is their character just that strong in the setting or are they fortified with supernatural blessings, or whatever.

And the game absolutely could provide these..but for each one they provide, they cut out alternatives in all possible settings.

Where the mechanics are indifferent, I see no need to limit possibilities.