D&D (2024) The Cleric should be retired

[Tonguez]

I like this idea. Are Paladins then seen as field agents of temples?

I keep going back and forth between whether I want the Cleric and the Paladin rolled into one or as a possible subclasses of another class, whatever that is. I can't seem to make up my mind.

yeah imc Paladins are replaced by the Order of Inquisitors - who are specifically commission to hunt down demonic corruption and 'heresy'. They're probably closest to Oath of Vengeance thematically

 

[Cadence]

My main issue with the cleric is it doesn't bring any real connection to the church or religious organization the cleric as a part of, and that in theory is one of the main story cruxes of the cleric.

I agree that something like the celestial warlock much better represents the "person chosen by a deity to act in the world under their name", sort of an avatar like concept. divine soul sorcerers handle the "innate divine power or blood" concept.

To me what makes the cleric the cleric is the church. They are its representative, its enforcer, its PR campaigner, or maybe even a church leader. None of that is really brought in to the class, and I think the archetype is diminished before of it.

Except the Warlock can completely ignore their patron in 5E (unless I misunderstand).

 

[Irlo]

My main issue with the cleric is it doesn't bring any real connection to the church or religious organization the cleric as a part of, and that in theory is one of the main story cruxes of the cleric.

I see what you mean, but I would strongly prefer that those organizational connections be excluded the class descriptions. Define them in the setting materials and in the PC background. [Note: it's probably worthwhile to have some examples in the PHB or DMG without locking it into the class itself.] I think that allows for a much broader range of interpretations of the class, which is only a benefit to the game.

 

[Cadence]

What I think of this idea...

 

[AnotherGuy]

Sounds like an RP issue. I'd say it's up to the player to act within his cleric's faith and/or the DM to enforce it.

Sometimes it is nice to have some mechanical weight behind it as they have tried to do in other areas where it was considered "RP issues"

See downtime, bastions, sidekicks, inspiration...etc
I'm not saying those are all great, but you get the idea

 

[Mephista]

Except the Warlock can completely ignore their patron in 5E (unless I misunderstand).

Ish? If you flip your Patron the bird, you don't lose all your current abilities like a cleric or druid would, but Patrons are the ones that gives you new spells and abilities.

Its equivalent to a wizard losing their spellbook- no way to learn new spells or trade them out, but you still have magic. And you can always get a new book. (Or patron for a warlock).

How this reflects on a cleric replacement is open to debate.

 

[Remathilis]

Right, the historical connection is clear, but I think the White Mage archetype as it exists now differs from the classic cleric specifically in that:

• It doesn't wear armor
• It isn't effective with weapons
• It primarily casts spells in combat
• It isn't tied to a specific religion, but is generically "holy"

White mages also tend to fall into the "healer" role in most games insofar as they aren't really useful for much more than healing or buffing/protection magics. Sometimes they get offensive magic vs fiends, undead, or supernaturally evil monsters. However, D&D doesn't have the sort of resource mechanics to make that interesting. In prior editions, giving the cleric combat ability was the solution, but I think if you merged the cleric with more an invoker/blaster model, you could make an effective white mage character.

 

[Leatherhead]

The Cleric was created to fix a very specific problem.

Later on, they were revised to fix a different problem, namely the problem that natural healing took too long.

Now that both of those problems are long gone. There really isn't any advantage to keeping the Cleric around, it only serves to pidgeonhole most religious characters into one class.

 

[strawbellebelle]

Believing that a character class you don't personally see interest in should be entirely removed from the game belies an extreme degree of narcissism and selfishness.

And no, one class and one subclass with a fraction of the Cleric's divine spellcasting capabilities and one subclass that effectively trades the subclass features Clerics would receive with the ability to use Cleric spells in the first place don't eclipse the Cleric.

 

[MGibster]

IMO, there's nothing wrong with the cleric as-written. The number of mentions in popular fiction isn't a metric I'm interested in. The class features of other classes isn't the cleric's problem.

Yeah. Let D&D be D&D. I don't expect it to be Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, Xanth, or Conan the Barbarian. I find D&D has a charm its own and why would I want to abandon something that makes it unique?