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D&D 4E The Business of 4ed Part II: What success would look like

Daztur

Adventurer
OK in my last post (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=208976) I talked about why I think that D&D is in more financial trouble than most people realize. Now what, from a purely business perspective, would be necessary for 4ed D&D to be a financial success?

I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that having most of the current D&D player base buy some core 4ed books (and by core I mean the books you need to play, not whatever WotC has decided to call core these days) is not enough. Sure they’d be able to make a nice pile of money for a year or two, but then what? What keeps the salaries paid until the next edition? For the last couple years WotC has been making a MASSIVE chunk of their D&D money off of minis but that market has got to be getting saturated. As I see it, here’s what possibilities there are for WotC’s D&D business in the future:

1. Release a new edition every five years or so and ride out the nerd rage.

2. Hold off on releasing a new edition until the community feels it really needs it (every 7-9 years or so) and in between editions fire most of the staff and then cherry pick the best third party designers to hire when its time to write up a new edition.

3. Figure out a way to make existing D&D players spend more money than has previously been the case and/or figure out a way to bring a significant number of people into the player base.

What would be needed for 3 to work in the light of the PnP genre decline, grognards who don’t buy new stuff, increasing average age of D&D players, competition from MMORPGs and other issues that I brought up in my last post?

-Subscription-based income: in order to keep the money coming in between editions, WotC needs a steady revenue stream. Subscriber-based income is good for this since its very steady and is more resistant to piracy than publishing piles of splat books. How to make gamers willing to fork out money for a subscription service like DI?

-Lowering the barriers to entry: Right now if you’ve heard about D&D and want to start playing it’s not easy. Chances are that it’ll be hard for you to round up enough people that you already know and get them to sit down and play with you if they haven’t played PnP RPGs before and often campaigns run by first time GMs with first time players are less fun than well-made computer games. So what do you do then? Find the local hobby store and hope to find someone to play with there? Hobby stores that host D&D games are getting fewer, growing up the closest hobby store was an hour drive away from my home, which is damn far for a kid with no car. You can also poke around on the internet for D&D groups (something that there’s no central directory for), hope you can find someone, hope they need a new player, hope your schedules match, hope you can figure out how gameplay works at the level that they’re playing at and with the house rules they use, hope they’re not a bunch of freaks and hope you care enough about a game you’ve never played to dedicate a Sunday to meeting a bunch of strangers. There’s a reason why not a single one of the people who’ve joined my area’s gaming group has been new to PnP RPG games. How to fix this?

(to be continued)
 

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Gwathlas

First Post
Daztur said:
OK in my last post (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=208976) I talked about why I think that D&D is in more financial trouble than most people realize. Now what, from a purely business perspective, would be necessary for 4ed D&D to be a financial success?

I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that having most of the current D&D player base buy some core 4ed books (and by core I mean the books you need to play, not whatever WotC has decided to call core these days) is not enough. Sure they’d be able to make a nice pile of money for a year or two, but then what? What keeps the salaries paid until the next edition? For the last couple years WotC has been making a MASSIVE chunk of their D&D money off of minis but that market has got to be getting saturated. As I see it, here’s what possibilities there are for WotC’s D&D business in the future:

1. Release a new edition every five years or so and ride out the nerd rage.

2. Hold off on releasing a new edition until the community feels it really needs it (every 7-9 years or so) and in between editions fire most of the staff and then cherry pick the best third party designers to hire when its time to write up a new edition.

3. Figure out a way to make existing D&D players spend more money than has previously been the case and/or figure out a way to bring a significant number of people into the player base.

What would be needed for 3 to work in the light of the PnP genre decline, grognards who don’t buy new stuff, increasing average age of D&D players, competition from MMORPGs and other issues that I brought up in my last post?

-Subscription-based income: in order to keep the money coming in between editions, WotC needs a steady revenue stream. Subscriber-based income is good for this since its very steady and is more resistant to piracy than publishing piles of splat books. How to make gamers willing to fork out money for a subscription service like DI?

-Lowering the barriers to entry: Right now if you’ve heard about D&D and want to start playing it’s not easy. Chances are that it’ll be hard for you to round up enough people that you already know and get them to sit down and play with you if they haven’t played PnP RPGs before and often campaigns run by first time GMs with first time players are less fun than well-made computer games. So what do you do then? Find the local hobby store and hope to find someone to play with there? Hobby stores that host D&D games are getting fewer, growing up the closest hobby store was an hour drive away from my home, which is damn far for a kid with no car. You can also poke around on the internet for D&D groups (something that there’s no central directory for), hope you can find someone, hope they need a new player, hope your schedules match, hope you can figure out how gameplay works at the level that they’re playing at and with the house rules they use, hope they’re not a bunch of freaks and hope you care enough about a game you’ve never played to dedicate a Sunday to meeting a bunch of strangers. There’s a reason why not a single one of the people who’ve joined my area’s gaming group has been new to PnP RPG games. How to fix this?

(to be continued)

Egads. You could consider me a grognard but I've always been happy to buy new products and support the industry. But what wotc has told us about the changes do now excite me and the massive changes they are instituting for FR and killed any interest I might have had in their new starwars and dragons game. In fact it pushed me a step further I won't buy any wotc/hasbro product, novels, rules, or minis. I don't see their approach as winning customers or keeping old ones.
 

Daztur

Adventurer
Gwathlas said:
Egads. You could consider me a grognard but I've always been happy to buy new products and support the industry. But what wotc has told us about the changes do now excite me and the massive changes they are instituting for FR and killed any interest I might have had in their new starwars and dragons game. In fact it pushed me a step further I won't buy any wotc/hasbro product, novels, rules, or minis. I don't see their approach as winning customers or keeping old ones.
Well by "grognards who don't buy new books" I didn't mean it as a value judgement just stating the simple fact that if you have a bookshelf of RPG books that are perfectly functional its hard to sell you more.

As far as whether they are succeeding in winning over new people, that's a hard question (I don't much care about FR but I hope they don't screw it up like the silliness that happened to Dragonlance) but they really need to bring new people into the game (or get existing people to pay more money) or they'll have SERIOUS financial problems.
 

pawsplay

Hero
Hasbro doesn't worry about revising Connect Four or Monopoly every five years. If they want to make money, they have to kill the most sacred cow of all: having one major RPG product line.
 

Daztur

Adventurer
pawsplay said:
Hasbro doesn't worry about revising Connect Four or Monopoly every five years. If they want to make money, they have to kill the most sacred cow of all: having one major RPG product line.

Right if 4e doesn't make much money it won't kill D&D, they'll probably just fire most of the devs, put out very few new books, continue to focus on novels and minis and maybe reissue some old edition books as collector items. Although they'd probably still put out new corebooks every 7-9 years (or at least every decade or so) since by that time there'd be people who'd want them.

I'm not sure that this would necessarily be a terrible thing, but it would be a big departure from how D&D has been in the past.
 


Moon-Lancer

First Post
why is wizards dividing their iconic clout through multiple books then, and why is core more then just phb,mm,dmg-123? They are dramatically changing, not only the game (i think thats a good thing) but the way the content is divided among books. I liked a small core with lots of options. Not a massive game that is dzn to convince the consumer to shell out for a few options that should have been in phb to begin with. It reminds me too much of the mini game and the way the best minies were packed in with crummy minies that no one wants.

as i have said in other threads I hope i am wrong.
 

Zamkaizer

First Post
Moon-Lancer said:
why is wizards dividing their iconic clout through multiple books then, and why is core more then just phb,mm,dmg-123? They are dramatically changing, not only the game (i think thats a good thing) but the way the content is divided among books. I liked a small core with lots of options. Not a massive game that is dzn to convince the consumer to shell out for a few options that should have been in phb to begin with. It reminds me too much of the mini game and the way the best minies were packed in with crummy minies that no one wants.

as i have said in other threads I hope i am wrong.

This isn't particularly relevant to the topic. I'm glad, though, that people are using every opportunity to enlighten as to why they're apprehensive about about 4th Ed.

Quite frankly, I think 4th Ed. will be financially successful if it is creatively successful. If Wizards offers an exciting gameplay system and interesting online content, no amount of righteous nerd rage or grognard conservatism will prevent it's acceptance amongst gamers of every stripe. I'm not necessarily saying it will be exciting or interesting - and I'm certainly not going to offer my opinion at this point - but the potential certainly exists. Wizards'll undoubtedly run a slick marketing campaign, but it's the word of mouth endorsements that come from positive experiences with the game that will make the game a success.
 
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