Stacking Flaming and Shocking?

[Xarlen]

The reason the holy/unholy/chaotic/lawful don't require an action? Because they're special.

It's a +2 weapon that does 2d6 extra damage. Okay. Sounds like 2 energy attacks together. However, the differences are this: it only hits creatures of certain aligment. The exchange? you don't have to activate it.

 

[Marshall]

No. It hasn't been activated, so it doesn't work.



It acts like a flaming weapon, which means it needs to be activated to work. If it's activated it also does the burst damage.


Where are you getting the "If its activated"? Nowhere in the description does it even imply that the text states "Upon Command, On a Critical..."


How is it going to do the extra burst damage if it's not already flaming or frosting or whatever? There is no fire to burst.



From the critical, and the +2 magical enhancement. Once more, "Upon Command" does not a special ability make.


Because you are completely wrong about the burst weapon thing?



Nope. Thats the way it reads. Parse the words any way you feel but heck I'm right.


Because they don't function in exactly the same way.

They are similar in that they have conditions that trigger their extra damage.

For the Holy, Unholy, Chaotic, Lawful, or Bane weapons, they do not normally do any extra damage. They only do extra damage when striking a certain type of creature.

The elemental damage weapons do not normally do any extra damage. They only do extra damage when you have taken the Standard Action to activate them, and then they do that damage to any target that isn't immune.

Thank you for proving the point.

I score a crit, I meet the conditions for doing the xtra damage.

Its nice to see youve come around.

 

[kreynolds]

Its nice to see youve come around.

Marshall. Let's try this again...

Oh and if it is command word activation, how do you handle Burst weapons?

First of all, it's not "command word", it is upon command. Activating a magic item is usually a standard action unless otherwise stated.

Well, since the description of Flaming Burst states "Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon...", it seems pretty clear to me that they function as a flaming weapon, with the exception that they "also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit".

Do they get their bonus damage if you havent activated the base enhancement?

If you are asking whether or not you get the burst damage on a burst weapon without activating it, then no. If you are asking whether or not you need to activate the +2 enhancement of your weapon before you get the +2 to hit and damage, go back and read Chapter 8 of the DMG. If you had read it, you should know that the +2 enhancement bonus of a sword is "use-activated", meaning it functions any time you swing or "use" the weapon.

It doesnt say anything about activating any Burst weapons or a Thundering weapon.

Yes it does. It states "Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon...".

What about bows? Do they need to be activated?

Yes.

Do they ever need to be de-activated?

That's kind of a gray area. A flaming sword is sheated in flame upon activation. It would make sense that a flaming longbow would have the arrow knocked (sp?) sheathed in flame, at least the arrowhead itself would be. Good point here Marshall.

To keep the enhancements fair, I would say yes.

For that matter, If its a standard action to activate Flaming it will take a looooonnnnnggggg time to go thru those +1 Flaming Arrows.

You don't understand how these work. A flaming longbow would be activated once. So long as it is activated, every attack deals additional fire damage. See chapter 8 of the DMG.

Heck one arrow every two rounds make the Bow of True Strike almost look good.

Actually, you perfectly pegged how a Bow of True Strike would work. Glad somebody finally got it right. Anywho, the Bow of True Strike does not function in the same manner as a flaming longbow.

Nope that "Upon command" is there just so those nitpicky DMs cant go thru all the above crap about how to store your energy weapon.

Wrong. It's in the book if the hopes that when you sit down and read it, you might learn how it works. Read it again. Chapter 8. DMG.

...but wait...there's more...

Really? Are you sure?

Yup.

FTR A whips out his +3 Frost Burst scimitar and hits the poor defenseless Ogre. Dam 1d6+STR, but no Frost because it hasnt been 'activated'. Right?

Right.

On his second attack, FTR A scores a crit! YAY! Dam 1d6+STR+1d10 burst, but no Frost.

Wrong. He doesn't get the burst damage either, because the Icy Burst has not been activated. Same reason he didn't get the standard 1d6 on the first hit.

So since my Burst weapon functions without a wasted round to activate it,

Nope. You need to activate it.

Why the holy heck should a pitiful little flaming weapon require it?

Because it states so in the description.

And speaking of Holy and for that matter Unholy, Chaotic, Lawful, and Bane, which all function the same way,

Those enhancement do not need to be activated to be used.

Where is there "standard action to activate"?

You quoted it. It's all right there.

It's all there.

 

[Caliban]

Thank you for proving the point.

I score a crit, I meet the conditions for doing the xtra damage.

Its nice to see youve come around.

*shrug* You are still as willfully ignorant as always. Choosing to disregard obviously related passages of text because they are inconvenient is really weak. Welcome to munchkinland.

Play it however you want, just don't expect anyone to believe that this is the way it is intended to work in the core rules.

 

[noretoc]

A couple of things here. I usually agree with everyone, but marshall has a good point with flaming arrow. Do you have to activate each one before you fire. That just seems plain silly. I don't see why they would be the exception. I don't see a balance issue at all with the weapon activating as a free action. If you are worried about a frost/flame/shock etc weapon, think of the other things you can do with a +5 enchantment.
Before K-reynolds says anything about enchanting a bow.... Saying it is ridiculous to buy arrows, rather than enchant a bow, only shows you lack of insight. There are many creatures that have energy resistance. I would much rather pay the money, and have ten arrows of flame and 10 arrows of frost, that way I can choose which to use. I like the idea of a bow which turn it's arrow flaming, but if I'm adventuring, I would rather have something versatile, that I cam make fit the encounter.
Also, about wood burning. If you have ever been camping and had trouble getting a fire started, you will realize that wood doesn’t go up like it is all oiled. If you took a log, and held a lighter to it, You could be there all day, it won't light. That is why we have kindling. To get the small stuff burning and hot enough to make the big stuff catch. It isn't a measure of time (though time does play a part) as it is the heat. Can the sword generate enough heat over time to catch the scabbard. I would think so, but the example you are using of wood and hardness doesn’t make it work. Try as you might, I'll bet if you put a candle under a tree branch, and there was nothing else but the wood around, it won't catch. ever.
And since we are talking about real life effect for this, how about this scenario. A well made scabbard. The sword fits in perfectly. burns for a round, boom no more O2. The flame dies, but the magic still is going. You draw the sword, the air hits it. Burst.....

Well anyway. While at first I was leaning toward the standard action, I now think that it wasn't meant that way. It really does seem like it is a bit too much of a limit on the sword.

 

[kreynolds]

A couple of things here. I usually agree with everyone, but marshall has a good point with flaming arrow.

Actually, he doesn't. The "flaming arrow" arguement doesn't reinforce his "free action activation" arguement at all. The descriptions of the enhancements are very clear.

Do you have to activate each one before you fire.

It wouldn't make sense if you had too.

I don't see a balance issue at all with the weapon activating as a free action. If you are worried about a frost/flame/shock etc weapon, think of the other things you can do with a +5 enchantment.

Sure. But it's amazing how those other enhancements don't function exactly like the others, so what's your point?

Before K-reynolds...

Too late.

says anything about enchanting a bow.... Saying it is ridiculous to buy arrows, rather than enchant a bow, only shows you lack of insight.

And your comment on this shows your lacking in basic reading capabilities, for if you had any, you would have noticed that I agreed with others and also explained myself, but you seemed to miss that part.

There are many creatures that have energy resistance. I would much rather pay the money, and have ten arrows of flame and 10 arrows of frost, that way I can choose which to use.

Or you could just cut out the middleman and get the Elemental Aura enhancement if you're that worried about creatures with different resistances.

I like the idea of a bow which turn it's arrow flaming, but if I'm adventuring, I would rather have something versatile, that I cam make fit the encounter.

That's why I prefer really big swords.

Also, about wood burning. If you have ever been camping and had trouble getting a fire started, you will realize that wood doesn’t go up like it is all oiled.

True. But when you go camping, you aren't trying to start a campfire with a flaming longsword.

If you took a log, and held a lighter to it, You could be there all day, it won't light.

Somehow I doubt that a Bic lighter would deal 1d6 points of damage in the first place, so there really isn't a comparison.

That is why we have kindling. To get the small stuff burning and hot enough to make the big stuff catch.

That's also why we have flaming longswords. Makes it much easier.

It isn't a measure of time (though time does play a part) as it is the heat.

Exactly, and I have a feeling that a flaming longsword will generate much more heat than a frickin' lighter. We're not talkin' about lighting a cigarette here.

Can the sword generate enough heat over time to catch the scabbard. I would think so, but the example you are using of wood and hardness doesn’t make it work.

That argument wasn't made "for" the argument. It was made "against" it, and you're right, it didn't work at all.

Try as you might, I'll bet if you put a candle under a tree branch, and there was nothing else but the wood around, it won't catch. ever.

Bet me. Find the closest tree to your house and try it.

And since we are talking about real life effect for this, how about this scenario. A well made scabbard. The sword fits in perfectly. burns for a round, boom no more O2. The flame dies, but the magic still is going. You draw the sword, the air hits it. Burst.....

If the sword fit in that perfectly, the pressure inside the scabbard wouldn't be equalized to the pressure outside the scabbard, so you wouldn't be able to draw the sword in the first place. Now that would be kinda silly, wouldn't it?

It really does seem like it is a bit too much of a limit on the sword.

Not really.

 

[Artoomis]

Activation

If a weapon has a special ability that the user needs to activate, then the user usually needs to utter the command word (a standard action).

Flaming

Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire. The fire does not harm the hands that hold the weapon. Flaming weapons deal +1d6 points of bonus fire damage on a successful hit. Bows, crossbows, and slings so enchanted bestow the fire energy upon their ammunition.

Caster Level: 10th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Market Price: +1 bonus.

Flaming Burst

A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the hands that hold the weapon. Flaming burst weapons deal +1d10 points of bonus fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is x3, add +2d10 points of bonus fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is x4, add +3d10 points of bonus fire damage. Bows, crossbows, and slings so enchanted bestow the fire energy upon their ammunition.

Caster Level: 12th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Market Price: +2 bonus.

It looks pretty straightforward to me.

As for ammunition - by the rules, you have to activate each arrow. That seems to kind of suck, but what are you doing with those arrows, anyway? Use the bow, man - activate it once per combat!

There is a bit of wiggle room on the burst effect, but it looks to me like it's an extra function that happens automagically if the weapon's flame power is active.

As for Holy, et.al.:

Holy

A holy weapon is good aligned and blessed with holy power. It deals +2d6 points of bonus holy (good) damage against all of evil alignment...

No command word. It looks like you do not need to activate this special ability.

 

[Corwin]

I used to play a barbarian from the frozen waste of the Northlands. He had a unique exotic weapon, chahulaks (from Dark Sun), basically a double weapon using heavy picks.

He had the flaming enchantment on them.

The funny part, though, was that he had a special "rack" made for them to prop them up on the ground, This allowed him to use them as his campfire. They generated all the fire he needed to keep warm and cook.

We also have always used the standard action to activate rule, BTW.

 

[kreynolds]

The funny part, though, was that he had a special "rack" made for them to prop them up on the ground, This allowed him to use them as his campfire. They generated all the fire he needed to keep warm and cook.

That's pretty frickin' cool and unique. Did you come up with that idea yourself? I woulda had to award ya' at least a little XP for that kind of creativity. That's the kind of stuff that makes characters stand out from the mold.

 

[Marshall]

It looks pretty straightforward to me.

Then youre looking at a funhouse mirror.

To steal your quote...

"A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon"

Uh huh, with you to this point. If for some reason you consider flaming to be in the category of 'special ability'(ie like the sunbeam power of a Sunblade, which, by the way, it
aint) its a standard action. Erroneous, but its your game.

"that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit."

Yup, no activation, no "upon command", only the "upon striking a successful critical hit". Dont confuse the two powers of a burst weapon. Nowhere does it even infer that you have to be Flaming to Burst.
Note, this also means you cant turn it off. It will always burst on successful crit.

Look at Thundering, the exact same enhancement. Less damage and a throw away saving throw, But LOOK MA! no "upon command". So why does "Sonic Burst", burst for free. But all the others take a round to activate.

Uh-uh. The "Upon Command" is there only to stop weak-minded DMs from forcing players to always carry their flaming/frost/shocking/corrosive/etc weapon in the open because their isnt a scabbard that can carry it.

As for ammunition - by the rules, you have to activate each arrow.

Thank You for pointing that out. By itself, that ends the argument.

Since its blatantly obvious that the rules Arent that you have to spend a round activating your arrows, and since, under your interpretation, you never have to activate or deactivate a bow, or other projectile weapons, and that, by the book, Burst functions without the bonus enhancement, Why should the melee weapons be penalized?