Spikes of the Manticore (Ranger Attack 7)

[Hypersmurf]

The fluff for Spikes of the Manticore states that you unleash two arrows.

The Target line reads "One or two creatures", and the Attack line specifies "Dex vs AC, one attack per target". The Hit entry describes the damage for the first shot and the damage for the second shot.

It appears to me that if you choose one creature (rather than two creatures) as the Target of the power, only one attack is made - since there is one target, and one attack per target.

Does this mean that the Hit result for the second shot is ignored (since only one attack is made), or that the Hit result for both the first and second shots are based on the single Dex vs AC attack roll?

Or, alternatively, does it seem that the intention was that if a single target is chosen, there should in fact be two attacks made against that target, and the "one attack per target" note is incomplete, failing to cater for the single-target scenario?

-Hyp.

 

[Mort_Q]

Seems straight forward.

Regardless of whether you target two creatures or the same creature twice:

• If the first shot, if it hits, does 2[W]+DEX.
• If the second shot, if it hits, does 1[W]+DEX.

What am I missing?

 

[Kaelkatar]

Firstly, don't ever bother to use fluff to justify anything, else I am going to drink every fighter with Iron Warrior.

Secondly, I would interpret the line "one attack per target" implies the use of the ability on two distinct targets. If not, I assume they would have written it as they do in twin strike as "Two attacks"

 

[Hypersmurf]

Regardless of whether you target two creatures or the same creature twice:

Can you target the same creature twice, though?

The Target line is "One or two creatures", and you make "One attack per target".

If you choose one creature, you have one target, and you make one attack - one per target.

If you choose two creatures, you have two targets, and you make two attacks - one per target.

I don't see that the power as written allows you to make two attacks on one target.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Firstly, don't ever bother to use fluff to justify anything, else I am going to drink every fighter with Iron Warrior.

I'm not using the fluff in the rules argument at all - just included it for context.

Secondly, I would interpret the line "one attack per target" implies the use of the ability on two distinct targets.

So given the possibility of selecting one creature as the target, what do you feel is the process followed if you do so?

-Hyp.

 

[Kordeth]

I'm not using the fluff in the rules argument at all - just included it for context.



So given the possibility of selecting one creature as the target, what do you feel is the process followed if you do so?

-Hyp.

IMHO, Spikes of the Manticore as written is correct, and Claws of the Griffon (which allows you to target both attacks against one enemy) should be changed to match it. Even if it requires two successful attacks, 3[W] + (2 x Dex + misc bonuses) seems overkill for a level 7 encounter power.

 

[Mort_Q]

Can you target the same creature twice, though?

One or two targets... so yes.

The Target line is "One or two creatures", and you make "One attack per target".

This, I admit is odd.

If you choose one creature, you have one target, and you make one attack - one per target.

If you choose two creatures, you have two targets, and you make two attacks - one per target.

As I said, odd.

I don't see that the power as written allows you to make two attacks on one target.

Common sense!? Something is a typo. Either it's the One creature or the One attack per target.

The power seems to be a ranged version of Claws of the Griffon, so I'd just use that.

Not saying there isn't anything wrong with the power as written... just that it's not so horrible borked that it can't be made sense of.

 

[Kordeth]

Common sense!? Something is a typo. Either it's the One creature or the One attack per target.

Actually, it's perfectly legal and logical as written (it might not be as intended, but it's not necessarily a typo). As written, if you choose to attack a single target, it's one attack that inflicts 2[W]. That's a valid use of the power, and fits all the rules (one target is a valid option, one attack per target is a valid option)--compare it to Split the Tree, for example, which requires two targets.

 

[Mort_Q]

Actually, it's perfectly legal and logical as written (it might not be as intended, but it's not necessarily a typo). As written, if you choose to attack a single target, it's one attack that inflicts 2[W]. That's a valid use of the power, and fits all the rules (one target is a valid option, one attack per target is a valid option)--compare it to Split the Tree, for example, which requires two targets.

Sure, it's legal, but I don't buy logical. It's just Hawk's Talon if you attack a single target, which is also just... odd. It works, but kind of a waste.

 

[Kordeth]

Sure, it's legal, but I don't buy logical. It's just Hawk's Talon if you attack a single target, which is also just... odd. It works, but kind of a waste.

Sure, and if you use Dire Wolverine Strike when you're only adjacent to one enemy, it's effectively just a melee basic attack. It works, but it's kind of a waste.