D&D (2024) Sorcerer (Playtest 7)

[TerraDave]

So little love...

This version is much improved. For a moment I even started thinking of playing one.

 

[Yaarel]

All of the Sorcerer subclasses incarnate planar energies.

Wild ‹ Plane of Elemental Chaos
Draconic ‹ Material Plane
Clockwork ‹ Lawful Neutral Plane of Mechanus
Aberrant ‹ Farrealm Plane

Potentially, any plane can be the source of a sorcerous subclass.


Note, the Sorcerer differs from the Warlock. The Sorcerer is a manifestation of the planar energy itself. The Warlock makes a pact with an entity who inhabits a plane.


Bodily incarnating a plane is the essence of the Sorcerer class identity.

 

[Vael]

Let me be clear, overall I think this version of the Sorcerer is good, a solid improvement on the 2014 version. For me, Sorcerers have had two main problems:
1. Tight resources, mainly spells and metamagics known are restrictive.
2. Establishing an identity seperate from the Warlock and Wizard.

The first has been more or less solved, the extra spells known are a serious boon. I think they should still be able to retrain a Metamagic every long rest, or get an additional one between 3rd and 7th level. They also need more Metamagics to choose from, but that can wait, as I want more niche ones that are great for certain types of Sorcerers.

The second remains a bone of contention, though I think Metamagic + Innate Sorcery solves the problem from a class feature perspective at least. Since we're back to individual spell lists, I think Sorcerers do need more spells unique to their class list. Sorcerous Vitality was good, I've always said that Sorcerers should get more ... self transmutation spells. The Self-Buffing Sorcerer should be a viable path apart from the Blaster archetype. The comparison has been made that the Sorcerer is the Barbarian to the Wizard's Fighter ... I'd add they are the Druid to the Wizard's Cleric, as in Clerics get Spirit Guardians, Druids get Wildshape. Sorcerers might not get Tenser's Transformation, but they can turn their limbs into super strong tentacles or get good versions of the Investiture Spells from XGE. Even though it was panned and too weak, conceptually spells like Sorcery Incarnate are a good way to go.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

Let me be clear, overall I think this version of the Sorcerer is good, a solid improvement on the 2014 version. For me, Sorcerers have had two main problems:
1. Tight resources, mainly spells and metamagics known are restrictive.
2. Establishing an identity seperate from the Warlock and Wizard.

The first has been more or less solved, the extra spells known are a serious boon. I think they should still be able to retrain a Metamagic every long rest, or get an additional one between 3rd and 7th level. They also need more Metamagics to choose from, but that can wait, as I want more niche ones that are great for certain types of Sorcerers.

The second remains a bone of contention, though I think Metamagic + Innate Sorcery solves the problem from a class feature perspective at least. Since we're back to individual spell lists, I think Sorcerers do need more spells unique to their class list. Sorcerous Vitality was good, I've always said that Sorcerers should get more ... self transmutation spells. The Self-Buffing Sorcerer should be a viable path apart from the Blaster archetype. The comparison has been made that the Sorcerer is the Barbarian to the Wizard's Fighter ... I'd add they are the Druid to the Wizard's Cleric, as in Clerics get Spirit Guardians, Druids get Wildshape. Sorcerers might not get Tenser's Transformation, but they can turn their limbs into super strong tentacles or get good versions of the Investiture Spells from XGE. Even though it was panned and too weak, conceptually spells like Sorcery Incarnate are a good way to go.

Gee. It's almost as though the warlock and sorcerer both being charisma spell-casting classes that both gain their powers through otherworldly sources interfering with their life is too similar a concept and they should arguably have been one class in the first place with the player selecting if their power came from a pact they made themselves or bloodline from an ancestor as fluff. On second thought, no. That would be crazy.

Sarcasm aside I'm not sure if I'd argue the first of your points are still solved though. Getting one sorcery point back on a short rest only when you have no remaining sorcery points is hardly "enough resources". (I can also already hear the threads of "Why does my sorcerer keep novaing their sorcery points on every first encounter?!" already). I'd also argue that adding 5 extra spells known, while nice, doesn't address the core problem: sorcerers are picking from a crappier list than wizards, and many thematically appropriate spells are not available to them due to lack of origin spells. Oh, and did I mention that warlocks are getting all of their patron spells known now?!

Please WoTC. Come clean already. Where did the evil sorcerer (and arguably monk) touch you inappropriately? I swear to you we'll support you and see to it they are brought to justice if you're brave enough to come forward already!

 

[Neonchameleon]

Please WoTC. Come clean already. Where did the evil sorcerer (and arguably monk) touch you inappropriately? I swear to you we'll support you and see to it they are brought to justice if you're brave enough to come forward already!

I don't think it's the Sorcerer that touched WotC inappropriately. After all they are Wizards of the Coast, not Sorcerers of the Coast.

And as I've said repeatedly I think the problem child is the sorcerer. There's to me a significant difference between the cheats, pact makers, and trust fund babies of the warlock and the people who learned and grew through hard work, experimentation, and practice and has a much broader collection of slots of the sorcerer. But the wizard is just a sorcerer with the specific power source of "books and academic learning". And the wizard subclasses don't land, don't change the wizard away from this.

 

[Stalker0]

Getting one sorcery point back on a short rest only when you have no remaining sorcery points is hardly "enough resources". (I can also already hear the threads of "Why does my sorcerer keep novaing their sorcery points on every first encounter?!" already).

I have never understood this myself. Why does the system reward players for just blowing their loads and novaing all the time? Why does a sorc need to be completely spend to get a sorc point, is it really so broken to just give them a sorc point back when initiative is rolled?

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

I don't think it's the Sorcerer that touched WotC inappropriately. After all they are Wizards of the Coast, not Sorcerers of the Coast.

And as I've said repeatedly I think the problem child is the sorcerer. There's to me a significant difference between the cheats, pact makers, and trust fund babies of the warlock and the people who learned and grew through hard work, experimentation, and practice and has a much broader collection of slots of the sorcerer. But the wizard is just a sorcerer with the specific power source of "books and academic learning". And the wizard subclasses don't land, don't change the wizard away from this.

Honestly that's valid point. Thinking about it that light I actually would be okay with combining the wizard and sorcerer into one class. Making "I'm the books guy" a subclass, maybe metamagic another, the blood lines one, etc. Heck I'd even be fine with making them all Int based. It would certainly eliminate most of my complaints with sorcerer just feeling like a worse wizard. It would even free up the overlap with the warlock and sorcerer to an extent.

I have never understood this myself. Why does the system reward players for just blowing their loads and novaing all the time? Why does a sorc need to be completely spend to get a sorc point, is it really so broken to just give them a sorc point back when initiative is rolled?

That will certainy be my housrule.

 

[Vael]

Honestly, at least Sorcerers are playing the same resource game that Clerics, Wizards, Bards and Druids are playing. Warlocks insist on causing multiclassing issues and pretending Eldritch Blast is a full class.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Honestly, at least Sorcerers are playing the same resource game that Clerics, Wizards, Bards and Druids are playing. Warlocks insist on causing multiclassing issues and pretending Eldritch Blast is a full class.

Eldritch Blast is no more a full class than archery proficiency is. It should however be written to be class-locked. To

And playing different games is what a class system is for.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Am I the only one who sees Wizards and Sorcerers as very different?

A Wizard is a skill sets you learn and thru education and study and hard work.

A Sorcerer is kin to innately magical monsters and races, it's like innate racial magics, but rit large and much deeper.