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Simulating D&D4E

knightofround

First Post
Huh? Ok, you lost me here. Is this some Eastern philosophy thing that I've never heard of? I know what chakras are, and not just the Xena ones.
I'm not expert on eastern philosophy but I know that several branches of yoga are dedicated to the belief that each part of your body has a unique connection to your spiritual being. Like if you look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra , simply re-assign the primary chakras to head, neck, wrists, chest, etc....kinda like a spiritual nervous system.

(I think thats a cool idea to explain magical item slots btw, thanks RSKennan :) )
 

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LostSoul

Adventurer
How do you explain some of 4Es abstract mechanics in your game?

The answer I have is vague: Whatever seems best at the time.

Maybe a healing surge or second wind heals damage. Grabbing some bandages and binding the wound or having cuts magically bind, or bones magically knit back together. Maybe it's not; maybe it's re-focused energy in the fight because it's something you really care about. It depends on the situation and what feels best at the time.

The same thing goes for any other abstract mechanic. I personally like this, because I can describe what happens in the gameworld in whatever way enhances my suspension of disbelief instead of having a rule that says explicitly what happens in the gameworld, even if that rule makes no sense in the given fictional situation.

(I personally wouldn't call this simulationism. I think it's just grounding things in the fiction. For me, simulationism is when getting the fiction right is the most important reason for playing, above any other concerns.)
 

Goumindong

First Post
Hit points do not represent physical damage. It simply represents the otherworldly ability of the hero to turn what otherwise would be a deadly wound into one that is non-threatening.

When non monsters/heroes are met with deadly force they die. When challenges are met with deadly force, they fight it out, gaining and losing advantages. Making good attacks that hurt their enemies but isn't enough to take them down.

When Boromir is defending the hobbits from the uruk-hai all those instances where he is fighting but not getting "hit" he is still losing hit points. He goes down when he gets hit with the arrow the hit that drops him below zero. He is unable to exert the effort to get out of the way, his supernatural reserves from being badass have simply run out. But makes one of his death saving throws, spends a second wind and even though he is wounded he is able to fight on and avoid some more attacks! Then he drops below zero again when the next arrow hits him and fails the rest of his saving throws.

In the end, hit points are there because is a fast way to model combat that isn't very "swingy"[and hits and misses are there because its no fun if everything hits or everything misses] How you describe them is up to you.
 

Jackelope King

First Post
It depends on the character, and the situation.

I can see a cleric, bloodied and down on one knee, heaving for breath as he leans heavily on his hammer, suddenly raising his head and crying out, "PELOR GIVE ME STRENGTH!", then lifting himself off the ground and swinging his hammer upward at the enemy's jaw.

I could also see an elven ranger popping a root or leaf into his mouth, chewing once, then spitting it out with a mouthful of blood before he raises his bow and draws back to his cheek, lining up his next shot. He knows nature better than anyone, and he knows that chewing on particular roots can do wonders for killing pain.

And I could see someone asking the eladrin wizard after the fight how she kept standing, only to be bored with a long explanation about how the wounds looked more serious than they were because while shallow cuts to the head tend to bleed, the injuries are, in fact, not as severe as they would seem, let alone the blood loss, so it was merely a matter of her regathering her wits and recognizing the insignificance of the injury before she got back to flinging arcane death at her enemies.

And then I could see a plucky little halfling, barely clinging to life, his hand clutching a bleeding shoulder futiley as the enemy advances, only to spring forward and drive a killing blow home as he yells, "Gotchya!", as he'd been feigning the injury the entire time.

Or there's always the simple fighter who gets back up when he should be down because he's a big damn hero, and big damn heroes don't die that easy. He's tough. He can take it.

WotC did right with this one: it's open to interpretation, and I can use a different one every time, so I'll always be able to use one that'll fit that particular encounter best.
 

FalcWP

Explorer
But when I get to 4Es "second wind" it gets to the point where I think "hmm...this is a bit too much like spontaneous regeneration, maybe I should think up an explanation for this".

A second wind is 'spontaneous regeneration' if your hit points are 'the orc stabs you in the arm and you take six damage'. If everything causes serious physical harm, then yes, being able to take a deep breath and be all better is a difficult concept. If hit points are more about getting the wind knocked out of you, being knocked to the ground, and being thrown off balance in addition to nicks and cuts, I think it works a bit better.

It isn't that you took six seconds and your cuts healed. Its the fact that you just took a hard right to the jaw that would have dropped a normal human, went down to a knee... and got back up. Its the 'badass' moment - the point where, even though the bad guy thinks you're on the ropes, you're about to come back strong. You don't have as much in reserve as you did at the start of the fight - by the time you use a second wind you might be out of encounters and/or dailies - but you have enough to go a couple more rounds. Its what separates a hero from everyone else.

What is a second wind, from a 'real' standpoint - as in, how would someone in game describe it? Its adrenaline. Its determination. Its utter faith in one's deity or cause. Onlookers don't see a person sit down for six seconds and then stand up, all their cuts and bruises gone. They see a hero poised at the edge of defeat take one last breath, raise their sword, and charge their foe - knowing that the next few seconds determine if they live or die.

And sometimes, that's not appropriate, either. Sometimes, its that you took a breath, readjusted your armor, and then cautiously moved back into the main fray. You spent a moment muttering a minor prayer to a god, to at least staunch the flow of your blood, even though full healing would have to wait. You pop your shoulder back into its socket. If it isn't a life or death struggle, it might not be as dramatic a scene - but a second wind can be as 'mundane' as anything in the D&D world. As with anything when the imagination is involved, a second wind can range from spectacular to ordinary.

And a few other concepts too -- the act of leveling up was always metagame-y (for story reasons I never wanted to require PCs to train to level up) but its more pronounced in 4E because when you go up a tier you gain much more power than a "normal" level.

I'll be honest - the tiers are something that I find a bit difficult to grasp, as written, from in-game. They've always existed, to an extent - 20th level adventurers in 3E could do things that were utterly outside the realm of belief for 1st level adventurers.

A number of possibilities exist, to transition from one tier to another. Contact with a divine or infernal agent. Magical rituals. Learning secret martial techniques. A personal quest that allows you to better understand your destiny. These are all possibilities, but I don't know if they all explain how a character can jump from slightly beyond mortal (heroic tier) to, in essence, a super hero (paragon) and to a state approaching the divine (epic).
 

Irda Ranger

First Post
It's magic.

No, really. Wizards can tap into magic with bat guano and finger-wiggles. Why can't fighters and thieves tap into it too?

It's sort of a "Everyone's a Jedi." point of view, but how they tap into the power of the Force, and how that power manifests, is different from person to person. That's why it's called the Martial Power Source.

You see, I think the Prime Material Plane has a power. It's an engine of creation as powerful as any Elemental Chaos or Astral Dominion; it sets the stars on fire and the planets in motion, pushes the continents around, and keeps dragons flying through the air. Each living being has a small spark of this power in him, but only a few learn to develop it. The spark is also seed, and in some, it blossoms and grows. Through trial and darkness you must travel, and overcome hardship and pain, but these thorns and tribulations fall on this spark like soft rainfall on meadow. From blood and fire blooms power.

Power so great even demons and angels know fear.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
Races

All my races have one of two origins. They were either created by Immortals, or have evolved to be like the Gods they follow. All Gods and Immortals were once mortals.

Created races, mostly the monstrous types, can't breed. So things like trolls, beholders, etc. are very rare and since most of their creators have also perished, they are also dying out.

Gods evolve into their beliefs so that orcs, for instance, were once human but their vicious, war-like, bestial natures transformed their gods, and in turn transformed them.

Encounter Breaks

Stub your toe. Walk around on it. Then sit down for a few minutes. Pain stayed around when you were walking on it, and went away when you sat down, right?

Same difference.

Healing Surges

Don't think of damage as damage or hit points as hit points. In fact, rename everything. Call Healing Surges just Surges. Call hit points Health. Call damage Threat.

Explain 'hits' as not causing actual, physical damage, but rather being close calls, minor scrapes, bruises, strain on muscles, forced movement, dust in the eyes, grunting, groaning... anything but major physical damage.

All of this threatens the character's health. Only the blow that knocks someone below 0 counts as actual physical damage, and even then, it's only serious damage if they die.

Imagine fireballs as wafts of flame, like a fwoosh of gas being lit at the stove. It could really hurt you, or it could just wash over you and just singe some hairs. Imagine sword blows as scraping off or sliding off armours and shields, but the impact is certainly felt. A massive axe crashing into the wall just above and behind the heroes head certainly shaved a bit off the character's life-expectancy, but didn't actually hit him.

So Surges are now not actually healing, but rather someone shaking off the effects, taking a deep breath and picking themselves back up to get into the fray again. As was mentioned earlier, John McClane or Rocky or any other action hero, are good examples of this.

Daily/Encounter Abilities

I explain this quite easily. It's really a level of difficulty thing. Although you may attempt something numerous times in a combat, the situation or your ability just isn't up to par all the time.

The time when you do pull off the manoeuvre, is basically when you're "in the zone" so to speak, and that may only happen once an encounter, or it may be so difficult that you can only seem to manage it once a day.

Tiered Levelling

IMC, the PC's are a step above the common people. They represent about 1% of the population who have both the resources, mentor, ability, and drive to go the extra mile and gain ability beyond the normal person.

They are like elite athletes. Sure, you run a bit you can get a 12 second 100 metres, but even if you train for your entire life, you'll never shave that down to 9 seconds. And let's face it, who has the resources to train that much anyway?

In this respect, most PC's are of noble blood, since they are the most likely to have access to the required resources. And the mentor is a big component. The mentor IMC must be of 5th-level in the class the PC wants to become. And the mentor must WANT to train the PC. He's not going to tell all his secrets to just anybody who comes along.

And that's just the heroic tier.

Only 1% of that 1% ever manage to get to 11th-level. Just finding a mentor of high enough level and of the right type. IMC, you need to find someone of the paragon class you want to train in, of at least 15th-level to train you. That is a very rare thing alone in my setting.

I explain the paragon tier as being beyond even the elite. They are the exceptions. They are the Einstein's, the Hitler's, the Madonna's, the Michael Jordan's, etc. People who go well beyond what even the elite achieve.

And then there's epic.

I explain epic as going beyond the mortal limitations of one's existence. IMC, you have to become an Immortal (not just immortal) to gain 21st-level. You are essentially super-humanoid.
 

rounser

First Post
No, really. Wizards can tap into magic with bat guano and finger-wiggles. Why can't fighters and thieves tap into it too?
Because it's not true to genre, mostly. Half the romance of living off your wits or your blade and outmaneuvering those tricksy magcians anyway is that you don't need such crutches.

My ideal ranger wouldn't have spells, either. Nor the assassin. Paladin might have the odd miracle or prayer, but that should be it.

But then, being true to genre seems to be a very low priority of late.
 

Irda Ranger

First Post
But then, being true to genre seems to be a very low priority of late.

Oh keep your shirt on. I just meant that taking on a dragon or a clan or Fire Giants with just your trusty sword and shield is its own kind of magic. A martial, physical kind. The same kind a dragon or a titan has. It's not about material components and odd cantations, but about digging deep down within yourself and finding a kind power that simply does. not. give. in.
 

sukael

First Post
Oh keep your shirt on. I just meant that taking on a dragon or a clan or Fire Giants with just your trusty sword and shield is its own kind of magic. A martial, physical kind. The same kind a dragon or a titan has. It's not about material components and odd cantations, but about digging deep down within yourself and finding a kind power that simply does. not. give. in.

Insert The 300 quote here. ;)
 

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