Level Up (A5E) Simplifying Guidance, Inspiration, and the like through orthogonalisation

[Quartz]

I'm theorycrafting here...

Players can achieve impressive numbers by stacking effects, breaking Bounded Accuracy, so how about orthogonalising them by keying off Proficiency

So, under Guidance, Inspiration, or whatever, if you are not Proficient, you roll as if you were Proficient; if you are Proficient, you roll as if you were Expert; and if you're an Expert, well, you already know what you're doing.

This means that no matter the source, PCs get no more than a +12 bonus to their roll from these effects.

Note that this improves Guidance and Inspiration at higher levels, keeping them useful when the action economy is important.

Yes, this does mean that Expertise can be applied - on a one-off basis - to attack rolls.

 

[aco175]

I looked up orthogonalising and I still did not understand the math behind it. Can you explain it a bit simpler in terms of what you are trying to accomplish?

It appears that you believe spells like guidance is not useful at higher levels and needs a boost. I'm not sure on the non-proficient, proficient, expert tree you are going with, but appears to give PCs that boost. Couldn't this be boosted with raising the spell level and grant guidance 1d6 instead of 1d4 by using a 2nd level slot or even 1d8 at 3rd level?

 

[Quartz]

The basic idea is KISS.

Guidance is a cantrip which grants +1d4. The average - 2.5 - is remarkably similar to the proficiency bonus at early levels, so let's just make it the same! Ditto Inspiration. The cap is that experts know their stuff already so don't need guidance or inspiration.

When we get to later levels, the action economy comes into play and makes casting Guidance a more meaningful choice. It also prevents rolling that dreaded 1 on the die.

 

[Charlaquin]

Alternatively, keep the bonus a dice roll decoupled from proficiency, but unify the various sources of such bonuses into a single system: Inspiration dice. If you gain Inspiration from one of your background characteristics, you get an Inspiration Die - a d4 you can roll and add the result to a future roll. If you would gain a second Inspiration Die, you instead increase the size of your inspiration die by one step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12, which is the cap). Guidance, Bardic Inspiration, Bless, etc. all grant Inspiration Dice.

 

[DND_Reborn]

We just use a flat +2 bonus for Guidance, but frankly is it hardly ever used anyway.

As for Inspiration, allowing a reroll is simple enough IMO.

Still, I'll watch to see what else you come up with and chime in if I think I can contribute. Good luck!

 

[ChaosOS]

I would resist changing dice to flat modifiers - dice are physical objects you can manipulate to remember, while static modifiers are far less tangible. However, I don't disagree that it would help if other types of bonuses were tied up together like advantage and proficiency do.

 

[Stalker0]

For any skill heavy game, Guidance is the most powerful spell in the game. Yep, I said it. My players try to milk it at every opportunity since we started playing 5e. It needs zero buffing, trust me.

Personally I have used 2 houserules in my time with guidance. The first one in earlier campaigns, and the second one now.

1) Change 1d4 roll to +2

Premise here is the spell can be very common and more rolls just slows things down. At a +2, its gets a slight nerf to average but gains consistency, and adding it in is much quicker. I'll note I did the same thing for bless, created way too much dice rolling when a simple +2 was a perfectly fine and good bonus.

2) Guidance: Lasts 1 hour (concentration). Affect 6 creatures, who gain +1 to all ability checks.

In my latest game, I got tired of having to manage guidance. Guidance, guidance, guidance, there wasn't a roll out there my players didn't try to get in a guidance bonus. I personally have found the spell annoying in play, so I greatly streamlined it.

Now, its a straight up +1 bonus that's just there. No muss, no fuss. While its weaker on many checks, its counterbalanced by the fact it now works on all ability checks (no more rules arbitration on whether it works or not).

My players still use it all the time, and my headache has been completely removed... I love it.

 

[jgsugden]

I have a lot of 5E under my belt, and the main mechanics work as intended. As such, I do not recommend any changes.

 

[CapnZapp]

I have a lot of 5E under my belt, and the main mechanics work as intended. As such, I do not recommend any changes.

This is a reply that completely fails to address the issues discussed by the thread.

 

[Quartz]

I have a lot of 5E under my belt, and the main mechanics work as intended. As such, I do not recommend any changes.

Indeed, but can they work better?