Pathfinder 2E Simplified PF2e?

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Actually, you mostly did; they were just ad-hoc descriptions in individual spells and powers, sometimes poorly explained.

Well I never played a spellcaster, so they were not to much of a thing for me!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well I never played a spellcaster, so they were not to much of a thing for me!

It wasn't unknown as monster powers either, though some were defined as extent spells. But just as a couple of examples, slowed and paralyzed were a thing all the way back in OD&D, as were attribute drains.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It wasn't unknown as monster powers either, though some were defined as extent spells. But just as a couple of examples, slowed and paralyzed were a thing all the way back in OD&D, as were attribute drains.

Sure, but like you said they each had their odd bespoke rules. And they could be very campaign dependent (though that is not to different from what we have now)

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sure, but like you said they each had their odd bespoke rules. And they could be very campaign dependent (though that is not to different from what we have now)

My point was, I'm not sold having dedicated bespoke rules is actually better than just having a limited number of conditions spelled out and followed through, either on consistency or ease grounds. Not really sold going back to that would be "simplifying" in any meaningful way; it'd just hide the conditions in a bunch of different places, and sometimes define them poorly to boot.

 

[mellored]

My point was, I'm not sold having dedicated bespoke rules is actually better than just having a limited number of conditions spelled out and followed through, either on consistency or ease grounds. Not really sold going back to that would be "simplifying" in any meaningful way; it'd just hide the conditions in a bunch of different places, and sometimes define them poorly to boot.

Conditions prevents stacking.

Having a party all giving clumsy 1 doesn't work. But a party all giving -1 to AC would make things trivial. So it's a good thing in general.

But still, they are things to keep track of and learn. You can simplify the game a lot if you don't need to explain the difference between dazed and dazzled or frightened and fascinated.
(Probably keep flat footed).

And once the players are used to the simplified game, you can just add the conditions back in without needing to overhaul anything. Just "here are more options".

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, if you want less conditions you do, but I'm just saying that's an issue of what distinctions are worth having and which aren't.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

My point was, I'm not sold having dedicated bespoke rules is actually better than just having a limited number of conditions spelled out and followed through, either on consistency or ease grounds. Not really sold going back to that would be "simplifying" in any meaningful way; it'd just hide the conditions in a bunch of different places, and sometimes define them poorly to boot.

The proposition was not going back to odd bespoke rules. It was about getting rid of conditions, including form monsters and spells, etc

 

[Thomas Shey]

The proposition was not going back to odd bespoke rules. It was about getting rid of conditions, including form monsters and spells, etc

So, and I don't mean to exactly be sarcastic about this, but if you read me as cocking an eye at it, damage and nothing but? That seems kind of--extreme.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

So, and I don't mean to exactly be sarcastic about this, but if you read me as cocking an eye at it, damage and nothing but? That seems kind of--extreme.

That is what I thought was suggested and it would simplify the game. As I mentioned in my first response to the suggestion, I like conditions. So I don’t that I would go to that extreme, but it could see a reduced number and use of conditions.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That is what I thought was suggested and it would simplify the game. As I mentioned in my first response to the suggestion, I like conditions. So I don’t that I would go to that extreme, but it could see a reduced number and use of conditions.

Don't mind me, I've probably just lost track of who made the suggestion.