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D&D 1E Should Gold Dragons always be LG and Black Dragons always be CE?
- Thread starter MWLewis
- Start date
the Jester
Legend
There are always exceptions. Especially with something like a dragon, where each individual is absolutely a unique creature with its own history, goals, etc.
No. Not for 1e*. Dragons are fantastical creatures of myth and legend, and asking if a Gold Dragon is actually evil is akin to asking if a Mind Flayer is a vegetarian.
That said ... dragons are intelligent, and alignment is a guide, not a straightjacket. The "goodness" of a gold dragon might not seem so good to a party of PCs (for example).
*Remember that in 1e, alignment tends to have a lot more effects. If you start ripping it out root and branch, it will have spillover consequences. Which is fine, but you'll need to thoroughly consider it.
deganawida
Legend
Just want to say that is something which I miss in more modern fantasy stories and games. Many of our monsters have their roots as creatures not of humankind’s world, but of some over-, unde-, or parallel world, if not being originally purely spiritual beings. Making them mortals makes them feel less special and far less Other. YYMV, of course.
You could make a generic dragon with random attributes.
Would create a bit more caution in players as they wouldn't know what they were facing.
For example, if they are fighting a red dragon, they know they need to be prepared for fire damage.
If the dragon is random and has say lightning as a breath weapon, then they wouldn't know that until the fight began or they scouted out the dragon to learn it's abilities.
Would create a bit more caution in players as they wouldn't know what they were facing.
For example, if they are fighting a red dragon, they know they need to be prepared for fire damage.
If the dragon is random and has say lightning as a breath weapon, then they wouldn't know that until the fight began or they scouted out the dragon to learn it's abilities.
No. Unless there is some magical force.
1E does not do the "wacky mix everything up": good is Good and evil is Evil.
Though you can still have a good dragon to "good deeds" that don't exactly match the 'human' idea of good.
And evil dragons that don't do "evil deeds" that match what humans think of as evil.
1E does not do the "wacky mix everything up": good is Good and evil is Evil.
Though you can still have a good dragon to "good deeds" that don't exactly match the 'human' idea of good.
And evil dragons that don't do "evil deeds" that match what humans think of as evil.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
That having been said, you could do the Pool of Radiance thing and have an otherwise Good dragon possessed by evil.
Celebrim
Legend
Theoretically I could, but in practice I consider exceptions to the Dragon's alignments to be so rare that they never come up, and the departures from normal alignments are usually so small that they wouldn't impact play anyway.
My write up of dragons for 1e here: https://www.enworld.org/threads/revised-and-rebalanced-dragons-for-1e-ad-d.580811/
Like maybe 1% of Gold Dragons would be NG or LN. But at any time there might be fewer than 100 gold dragons in existence. Likewise, maybe 1% of Black Dragons would be NE or CN, but who is going to notice? As a practical matter, the most you could say about a CN black dragon is that they would be inclined to stay out of the way of humans and expected humans to stay out of their way. If you happened to meet one, you might only realize that this particular black dragon wasn't vicious for fun if for some reason you subdued it and got to know it. But even then, it's going to highly resent being subdued and forced into servitude and probably would hold a grudge against you for that.
In short, it just never comes up. There is too much danger of "Gotcha!" when alignment swapping dragons, and honestly I don't think it adds anything to the story to do so or creates a particularly interesting NPC. Subverting expectations isn't the most interesting thing you can do usually, and if you are going to do it it's usually best to do it with something where it makes more sense and is less iconic and archetypal. I'd rather subvert expectations with a troll than a dragon.
Celebrim
Legend
There is this weird trope going on right now where people try to signal how comfortable they are with The Other, by making everything exactly like themselves, thereby actually revealing just how uncomfortable they are with the idea of things whose feelings, beliefs, ideas, and culture isn't exactly like their own. It's mildly concerning to me when I see that behavior with respect to non-human ideas, and it's downright scary when I see people misapply the idea of "we're all fundamentally similar" to real people. Real empathy requires us not to just recognize the similarities, but understand and recognize the differences. If you can't do that with something as different from you as a dragon, and instead find yourself pretending a dragon thinks exactly like a (for example) 20 year old upper middle class American - well there is a problem.
