Should Characters Be Able to Attempt Anything Untrained?

[Incenjucar]

Eh. It's an inherently magical world. While the finer applications of Arcana should certainly be limited, just as you wouldn't let an untrained climber try to ascend glass, I don't see why people wouldn't be able to tap into the barest hint of magic.

 

[Umbran]

Should they be able to attempt? Sure.

Should they have anything like a credible chance to succeed? Not necessarily.

We'll take a simple and clear example for the point. The characters come across a paper, with writing on it. The writing is in Russian, and explicitly, none of the PCs have language skills beyond fluency in their native English.

Can they attempt to read it? Well, yes. They can stare at it until they turn blue in the face. Is the attempt going to succeed? No.

 

[Astrosicebear]

We have heard that classes will grant some bonus to skills, or "give" skills to the character. With what we also know about the playtests, and the designers wanting players to "try anything", we might be able to surmise that "trained" skills are those that are granted by the class. For example, a rogue may get Open Lock trained, and based upon Dex, may not ever need to roll another open lock check again. The DM simply says, you find a locked chest but are able to unlock it. A check may be required for untrained skills, or in situations where failing has consequences beyond a retry.

 

[Elf Witch]

I think characters should be able to try anything. I hate you can't try sleight of hand because you are not trained in it or no you can't roll a knowledge check on history because you have no ranks in it.

To me skills ranks mean you are better at it and have a better chance at succeeding but anyone can try and pick a lock or disarm a trap. Or try and remember a bit of history.

 

[jonesy]

In a world where sorcery exists, depending on how it's described, I might allow untrained casting. With a huge likelyhood that nothing at all happens, getting bigger the higher the effect desired.

 

[malraux]

If I were writing the rules (and I haven't been following the 5e posts enough to know how close this is) and getting rid of skill roles as something independent from ability checks, what I would do is something like this: different classes get skill bonuses relating to their domains. For example: the rogue gets +3 on skill checks relating to traps, regardless of if its a wisdom based "spot" check, a dexterity based "disable" check, etc. The mage would get a +3 bonus for arcana related checks, regardless of if he is Identifying a spell, detecting magic, etc. The dumb as rocks barbarian adventurer can probably figure out that the pointy hat guy in the corner yelling "Magic Missile" over and over is probably casting magic missile, or that the glowing shimmering curtain of light is a magical effect even if if he isn't trained in arcana.

I'd try and adjust the bonus numbers so that the play experience works about like what you'd expect; a dexterous fighter could sometimes disable a trap, but you wouldn't want to count on it, a rogue could dependably do it, and a low dex guy would almost never succeed.

I'm not a fan of trained only skill classes because IME it leads to forcing the players to have that specific class feature on hand, which means either giving that feature to almost every class or forcing someone into a class they don't really want.

 

[howandwhy99]

Should Characters Be Able to Attempt Anything Untrained?

Yes and no.

Yes, anything can be attempted. Untrained or otherwise. Please get creative.

No, they shouldn't engage in being, well, jerks. In the past we never really needed a so-called social contract. We did have Table Rules, but most players understood courtesy without this needing to be spelled out. It's now en vogue to tack these up, so we do so. Basically these rules never refer to the game play, they're more an understanding of the play environment and strictures because of it. "There's kids here, no cursing" Common sense stuff.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Attempt, yes. Succeed, no.

Some things ... Use Magic Device, Alchemy, Pilot (Airplane) ... should not be possible to succeed on pure random chance without at least minimal training.

 

[IanB]

In a world where sorcery exists, depending on how it's described, I might allow untrained casting. With a huge likelyhood that nothing at all happens, getting bigger the higher the effect desired.

I think you mean a huge chance that disaster happens.